TEST TEST 

>> MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE. NEXT SPEAKER. HE IS PRINCIPLE MEMBER OF THE TECHNICAL STAFF OF THE ENERGY INNOVATION DEPARTMENT. HE FOCUSES ON HELPING ZERO MISSION TECHNOLOGY TO BECOMING SUCCESSFUL. HIS PROJECT INCLUDE A MIX OF ASSESSMENTS AND DEPLOYMENTS OF HYDROGEN IN AIRCRAFT ON MARITIME VESSELS FOR GENERATORS CONSTRUCTION MATERIAL HANDLING EQUIPMENT AND PORTABLE DEVICES. DR. PRATT RECEIVED HIS BS IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING HYDROGEN IN AIRCRAFT ON MARITIME FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON. HIS PH.D. FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA IRVINE. [APPLAUSE] 

>> THANKS. I HAVE THE VERY NICE PLEASURE TO LOOK AT CLEAN ENERGY VESSELS AND GETTING PAID FOR IT AT THE SAME TIME. THAT WAS AT THE BEGINNING OF SEPTEMBER. THE TRIP WAS MORE ABOUT LOOKING AT HOW THE VESSELS IN EUROPE ARE HANDLING LNG AND HYDROGEN. THAT WAS RELATED TO THE STUDY THAT MY COLLEAGUE LENNY AND I WERE WORKING ON AT THE TIME LOOKING AT A HYDROGEN FUEL. THROUGH THAT WE ALSO ENCOUNTERED A FEW ELECTRIC VESSEL S. I'M GOING TO RUN THESE QUICK. WE'RE A LITTLE SHORT ON TIME. THIS IS WHERE THE VESSELS ARE I WILL BE TALKING ABOUT LOCATED. MAINLY WE'RE UP IN NORWAY. I INSERTED A LITTLE BIT ON HH FERRIES WITH HELP FROM ABB. THEY'RE NOT RUNNING NOW. JUST HAVE A LITTLE BIT INFORMATION. IF YOU'VE BEEN ON AIR MISSION HYDROGEN WORKING GROUP, YOU SEEN A LOT OF THESE SLIDES ALREADY. I APOLOGIZE. THE FIRST ONE I WILL TALK ABOUT IS SOMETHING I THINK PEOPLE HERE HEARD OF THE FERRY. IT'S 120 CAR, 350 PASSENGER VESSEL. GOES AROUND 10 TO 12 NOTS PART OF THE NORWEGIAN HIGHWAY SYSTEM OPERATED BY NORWAY. IT GOES FROM SOUTH ACROSS THE -- DON'T ASK ME TO PRONOUNCE IT -- TO LA VAC. IT'S SIX KILOMETERS. IT TAKES ABOUT 20 MINUTES. THEY HAVE 10 MINUTE TURN AROUND ON EACH END. IT USES ABOUT 150-KILOWATT HOURS OF THE BATTERY FOR EACH CROSSING. ON THE DOCK, THIS IS KIND OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. THE CHARGING EQUIPMENT. THEY HAVE TWO CHARGING SYSTEMS. THEY INSTALLED BOTH OF THEM BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHICH ONE THEY LIKE BETTER. THEY TRYING TO GET A FEEL FOR TWO DIFFERENT CHARGING SYSTEM. ELECTRIC GRID IN THE AREA DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH POWER TO SUPPLY POWER NEEDED FOR THE VESSEL. THEY ALSO INSTALLED BATTERY HOUSES HERE. WHILE THE VESSEL OUT, THOSE BATTERIES GET CHARGED. THAT'S WHAT ACTUALLY DUMPS ELECTRICITY INTO THE BATTERIES ON THE VESSEL. THERE'S THREE FERRIES THAT GO ON THE ROUTE. BUT ONLY ONE CURRENTLY IS BATTERY ELECTRIC. THIS IS 100% BATTERY ELECTRIC. NOT A HYBRID. THIS A PICTURE LAVAK IT'S THE SAME. THERE'S A SUCTION CUP. THIS HOLDS THE VESSEL SIDEWAY AGAINST THE DOCK. THEN AT THE FRONT, SORRY, NOT THE BOW. LONG HISTORY IN MARITIME YOU CAN TELL. THEY HAVE A LITTLE HOOK THAT COMES DOWN ON THE THING THAT DROPS DOWN SO THE CARS CAN DRIVE ON AND OFF THERE. THERE'S A HOOK THERE THAT GOES INTO THE SHORE. BASICALLY WHAT THEY FOUND PRETTY QUICKLY WAS THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE THIS VESSEL REALLY RIGID UP AGAINST THE DOCK BECAUSE THE CHARGING SYSTEM, THEY DON'T WANT IT TO PULL OUT DURING CHARGING. THEY PUT THESE TWO THINGS IN TO DO THAT. YOU CAN SEE ON THIS PICTURE A FEWELL MARKS HERE -- FEW WELL MARKS HERE. HE'S TWO CHARGING SYSTEMS. ONE IS THE GRAPH. THIS ONE IS CALLED THE PLUG. THEY'VE FOUND THROUGH SIX MONTHS OR SO MAYBE A YEAR OF OPERATION, THEY LIKE THE PENTGRAPH A LOT BETTER. IT HAS LOT MORE FLEXIBILITY. THEY ARE REALLY THICK. THERE'S NOT REALLY ANY FLEXIBILITY THERE. THEY'VE HAD TIMES WHEN THE PLUG WILL SLIP OUT OF THE SOCKET. THEN THERE'S A LOT OF DAMAGE. THEN THEY LOSE THEIR CHARGE. I THINK THAT WAS IT. ALSO THE PAINTGRAPH IS A LOT FASTER TO MAKE THE CONNECTION AND THE PLUG TAKES LOT LONGER. I'M TALKING LIKE A MINUTE. TO THEM, EVERY MINUTE COUNTS TO GET THE ENERGY THEY NEED. CHARGING TAKES ABOUT 10 MINUTES. IT GETS ABOUT 200-KILOWATT HOURS. THIS IS A PICTURE OF CHARGING WITH PENTGRAPH. THIS IS ON THE VESSEL. THERE'S TWO INDEPENDENT BATTERY ROOMS. I'M LEARNING THE TERMINOLOGY THIS MORNING. I THINK IT SHOULDN'T BE BANK, IT SHOULD BE RACK. 15 BATTERIES IN EACH RACK. THAT SHOULD BE MODULE. RIGHT? OKAY. THAT'S ALL YOUR DETAILS. IT'S ENGINEERING FOR 10 YEAR LIFE. ENGINE ROOMS, TWO INDEPENDENT ENGINE ROOMS. THERE'S ONE 450-KILOWATT MOTOR IN EACH ROOM. THOSE ARE YOUR SPECKS. WE TALKED ABOUT THE CHIEF ENGINEER ON BOARD. HE LIKES THESE A LOT, THERE'S REALLY NO MAINTENANCE. THEY HAVE TO DO GREASE CHECKS AND STUFF. ONLY MAINTENANCE IS AT 50,000 HOURS THAT'S A BEARING REPLACEMENT. COMPARE THAT TO YOUR DIESEL. JUST LIKE TO TAKE THIS CHANCE TO THANK THE CHIEF ENGINEERING FROM DMVGO. THERE'S A PICTURE OF ARNIE AND TOM. ON TO THE NEXT ONE. JUST UP THE STREET A LITTLE BIT. WE WENT TO THE VISION OF THE -- THIS IS A HYBRID ELECTRIC VESSEL. IT'S CARBON, FIBER DIESEL ELECTRIC. 400 PASSENGER. IT'S UNIQUE DESIGN. HAS THESE KIND OF ZIG ZAG RAILS. THEY DID THIS DESIGN TO MATCH SORT OF THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE TRAILS GOING UP AND DOWN. BUT ALSO, THE LINEAR FOOTAGE OF THE RAILS IS LONG ENOUGH THAT ALL 400 PEOPLE CAN BE UP ON THE RAIL AND HAVE THEIR OWN TWO TO THREE FEET OF SPACE. IT'S TO GIVE EVERYBODY THEIR OWN WINDOW TO THE SCENERY. I'M NOT GOING TO TALK TOO MUCH ABOUT THE VESSEL. YOU CAN GO TO THE WEBSITE DOWN HERE AT THE BOTTOM. IT GIVES YOU A LOT OF COOL DETAILS ABOUT THE VESSEL DESIGN. THERE WAS A COMMENT EARLIER MADE ABOUT DESIGNING YOUR VESSEL TO OPTIMIZE ENERGY EFFICIENCY. YOU DON'T HAVE TO PUT SO MANY BATTERIES ON IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. THEY MADE IT OUT OF CARBON FIBER. THEN THE HOLES ARE REALLY SLENDER TO REDUCE THE DRAG FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND. THIS IS A ROUTE IT GOES ON. IT GOES BACK AND FORTH. HERE'S FLOM OVER HERE. IT GOES UP THIS HERE ON DIESEL. THEN IT GOES DOWN THE -- WHICH IS THE WORLD HERITAGE SITE. THIS IS WHAT REALLY PEOPLE COME TO SEE. IT SLOWS DOWN WHEN THIS GOES THROUGH HERE AND RUN ON FULL ELECTRIC. IT'S TOTALLY SILENCE. WHEN TOM AND I WERE RIDING ON THIS VESSEL, THEY DO THE ENTRY POINT HERE. WE'RE ON THE BRIDGE AND THEY SHUT OFF THE MAIN ENGINES. TOM STARTS WIGGING OUT, HE THOUGHT THE BOAT LOST POWER. THEY ALSO REALIZED THEY NEED TO START USING THEIR HORN ON THE BOAT STILL. THEY HAD TO KEEP USING THE HORN BECAUSE THERE'S KAYAKERS GOING THROUGH AND THEY COULDN'T HEAR THE BOAT COMING. THERE WAS NO NOISE ON IT ANYMORE. WE DIDN'T SEE MUCH OF THE SCENERY. WE WERE DOWN IN THE ENGINE ROOM AND ON THE BRIDGE. THIS IS A CHARGING EQUIPMENT. THERE'S TWO OF THESE KIND OF CRANE ASSEMBLIES. SHOW YOU A VIDEO I THINK I CAN PULL IT UP. LITTLE HARD TO SEE WITH THE LIGHT. BASICALLY THE CHIEF ENGINEER THERE IS GOT A LITTLE REMOTE CONTROLLER. HE'S MOVING THIS CRANE IN POSITION. HE CAN LOWER THE CABLES DOWN. THERE'S THE SOCKET HERE ON THE DECK. ONE THING THEY DON'T LIKE ABOUT THIS SYSTEM IS IT TAKES A LONG TIME. WE'RE TALKING A COUPLE MINUTES. EVERY MINUTE COUNTS HERE. HE'S GOT TO WAIT FOR HIS MATE COME OVER AND HELP HIM. HE'S CABLES IN THE SYSTEM IS NOT -- IT'S DESIGNED TO HAVE TWO PEOPLE DO IT TOGETHER. NOW YOU'RE ADDING CREW TO HAVE TO DO IT. LOT DIFFERENT THAN IF YOU THINK BACK TO THE AMPERE. THEY PULL UP AND IT'S FULLY AUTOMATED AND IT COMES IN RIGHT AWAY. THERE'S A COST DIFFERENTIAL IN HOW YOU DO THESE SYSTEMS. IF THEY HAD GONE TO FOUR CABLES INSTEAD OF TWO, THEY COULDN'T NEED THE CRANE. THEY'RE LIGHT ENOUGH SOMEBODY CAN CARRY THEM ON. THAT COULD SAVE SOME MONEY. PROBABLY HAVE MORE CREW AND TIME. DEPENDS ON OPTIMIZING FOR YOUR CHARGING SCENARIO. HERE'S DETAILS ABOUT THE CHARGING. THE CONNECTORS WEIGH ABOUT 10 KILOGRAMS EACH. THE CABLES ABOUT 3 KILOGRAMS A METER. IT GETS PRETTY HEAVY. THAT'S WHY THEY NEED THE CRANE. THEY WOULD PREFER FULLY OPERATED SYSTEM WITH SINGLE PLUG. NOW THEY'VE HAD SOME EXPERIENCE WITH IT. ACTUALLY THIS WAS ONLY AFTER ABOUT A MONTH OF EXPERIENCE WITH IT. THEY'RE HOPING THEY HAD SOMETHING BETTER. ONE OF THE THINGS WE LEARNED THEY DON'T HAVE POWER REQUIRED AT THE SHORE FOR THE ELECTRICAL GRID. THEIR SHORT SIGHT VOLTAGE. THEY CAN ONLY GET UP TO 77% CHARGE USING THEIR SYSTEM. THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE THAT. THEY ALSO REALIZED -- THEY INSTITUTED THIS VESSEL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON. IT CAME IN JULY. THEY KIND OF RUN ALL YEAR WHILE IT'S WARM. THEY WERE ON THE OLD SCHEDULE. THEY'RE ON THE DIESEL BOAT SCHEDULE. THEY TRYING TO SQUEEZE THIS ELECTRIC BOAT IN THERE AND DO THE CHARGING ON IT. LOT OF THE TURN AROUND TIMES ARE NOT OPTIMIZED. SOME CASES THEY CAN'T GET THE CHARGE TIME THEY NEED. IT'S ANOTHER BIG LESSON THAT WE LEARN BOTH FROM THE AMPERE AND FROM THIS. REALLY MAKING SURE YOUR TIME AT THE DOCK IS EFFICIENT TO CHARGE AN INCLUDING ALL THE VARIATIONS AND THINGS THAT WILL GO WRONG. MAKING SURE YOU HAVE ENOUGH ENERGY TO COMPLETE YOUR ROUTE. THESE ARE THE BATTERIES ON BOARD. BATTERIES SYSTEM BY ZIM. I MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN THE 15 BATTERY PER RACK, 7 RACKS FOR WHATEVER IT WAS CALLED AGAIN. ONE IN EACH HOLE. THE DRIVE TRAIN IS DIFFERENT THAN THE AMPERE BECAUSE IT'S HYBRID. IT'S NOT TYPICAL HYBRID. IF GOT SINGLE SHAFT THAT GOES FROM THE DIESEL TO THE PROPELLER AND CLUTCH IN THE MIDDLE AND MOTOR GENERATETOR. WHEN THEY'RE RUNNING DIESEL THEY HAVE THE CLUTCH CONNECTED. THE DIESEL IS POWERING THE PROPELLER DIRECTLY. IT'S NOT LIKE A GENERATOR ELECTRIC DRIVE SYSTEM. WHEN THEY RUNNING ON BATTERY, THEY DISCONNECT THE DEED -- DIESEL AND USE THE BATTERY. THEY CAN USE THE DIESEL TO CHARGE A BATTERY. BUT THEY DON'T DO THAT. THEY PREFER TO CHARGE IT FROM THE SHORE. THANKS TO THOSE GUYS, THE CAPTAIN AND FIRST MATE. NOW I'LL GO TO HH FERRIES. THESE FERRIES AREN'T BUILT. THIS IS THE PLAN HERE. I GOT THESE SLIDES FOR MAYBE -- ABB WEBSITE. YOU CAN DOWNLOAD THEM AS WELL. SO MANY INFORMATION. THIS IS A VESSEL CONVERSION. THESE ARE TWO EXISTING DIESEL BOATS THEY'RE CONVERTING THEM TO 100% BATTERY ELECTRIC. THESE ARE THE SPECKS HERE. YOU GOT ROUGHLY 240 CARS AND 1100, 1200 PASSENGERS. THEY'RE ABOUT 350 FEET VESSEL. THEY GO FROM SWEDEN OVER ON THE RIGHT TO DENMARK ON THE LEFT. IT'S ABOUT THREE MILES ROUGHLY ACROSS. THEY RUN ACCORDING TO MARINE TRAFFIC.COM. ABOUT 10 TO 12 KNOTS. YOU SEE THE TWO VESSELS HERE. I TOOK THE SNAPSHOT THE OTHER DAY. THAT'S THEM CROSSING EACH OTHER IN TA THIS CHANNEL. CHARGING TIME. 5.5 MINUTES IS ALL THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE ON ONE SIDE IN 9 MINUTES AT THE OTHER SIDE. THESE ARE BIG BOATS. THIS IS ABB'S SCOPE. THEY'RE DOING THE SHORE CONNECTION ROBOT. ON THE BOARD DC GRID, THE BATTERIES FROM PLAN B AND THE CONTROL SYSTEM. THIS IS THE SHORE CONNECTION ROBOT. WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, THIS ROBOT WILL ACTUALLY START GOING OUT IN THE DOOR ON THE BOAT WALK. WE'LL START COMING UP SO THEY CAN MAKE THE CONNECTION WHILE THE BOAT IS STILL MOVING RIGHT AS ITS DOCKING. REALLY NOT TO WASTE A SECOND OF POSSIBLE CHARGING TIME. THERE'S A VIDEO ONLINE IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT. IT'S ANIMATION. IT'S NOT REAL YET. YOU JUST SEARCH ABB SHORE CONNECTION ROBOT. THAT WILL PULL UP ON UP ON YOUTUBE. THIS IS MY LAST SLIDE. WE DID THIS STUDY FOR HYDROGEN FUEL CELL VESSELS. DURING THAT STUDY, FROM THIS TRIP, WE STARTED THINKING, LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A REAL REASON HERE FOR 100% BATTERY ELECTRIC. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THIS DASH LINE SHOULD BE YET. I THINK IT'S CLEAR THAT WE'VE GOT -- WE LOOKED AT THREE DIFFERENT BOATS. THEY WERE ALL AROUND 10 TO 12 KNOTS. TWO OF THEM WERE FULL BATTERY ELECTRIC. THEY WERE PRETTY BIG. 1200 PASSENGERS OR SO. IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A FAIR CASE TO MAKE THAT A LOT OF THESE SLOWER VESSELS YOU CAN DO WITH ALL BATTERIES. OF COURSE IT DEPENDS ON YOUR RANGE. THIS IS FOOD FOR THOUGHT FOR THIS GROUP ON WHERE THAT WOULD BE. IF YOU GO FARTHER OR FASTER, YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT ANOTHER ZERO EMISSION SOLUTION LIKE HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS. ANY QUESTIONS? 

>> I APPRECIATED YOUR PICTURES. I ALSO HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THIS BOAT AND ONE THING THEY HAVE COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY THE BATTERY PACK AND BATTERY ROOM ARE NICE AND COMPACT AND IMPRESSIVE. WHAT IS EQUALLY IMPRESSIVE AND OFTEN OVERLOOKED IS THE ACTUAL SWITCH GEAR ROOM. WHICH IS ALMOST TWICE THE SIZE AS THE BATTERY COMPARTMENT. THAT'S SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND. HOW DO YOU TIE ALL THE SYSTEMS TOGETHER AND NOT OVERLOOK THAT SWITCH GEAR. DID YOU WANT TO TALK LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT AMPERE'S CHARGING AND HOW THEY HAVE TO HAVE AUXILIARY BATTERY POWERED CHARGING SYSTEM TO CHARGE THE BATTERIES ON BOTH SIDES? 

>> YES. IN LITTLE HOUSES ON EACH END WEREHOUSING THE SHORE BATTERY TO CHARGE. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. THERE WAS DIFFERENCE IN THE TWO BOATS. SWITCH GEAR ROOMS ON AMPERE, THEY HAD ONE COMMON SWITCH GEAR ROOM FOR BOTH BATTERY BANKS. THEY KEPT GET -- COULDN'T GET THE CLASS APPROVAL FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND. ANTHONY CAN CORRECT ON AMPERE, THEY HAD ONE COMMON SWITCH GEAR ROOM FOR THIS. TO TOTALLY GET RID OF A BACK UP GENERATOR. THEY WERE SEPARATE BATTERY ROOMS THEY STILL HAD A COMMON SWITCH GEAR ROOM. IS THAT A CLARIFICATION? THANKS. 

>> ONE QUICK QUESTION ABOUT THE AMPERE. CLARIFICATION THAT'S RELEVANT TO THE ROOM. AS WE SAW IT'S GOTTEN 10 MINUTES OF CHARGING ON BOTH LA VAC, MOSTLY NOT CLEAR FROM THE PRESENTATION, THE BACK SIDE IT STARTS 100% AND IT HAS A DISCHARGE. IT'S NOT RECHARGING 100% THEN IT SORT OF ZIG ZAGGING DOWN IN STATE OF CHARGE. IT DOESN'T GET DOWN TO NEAR ITS END OF CAPACITY. IN WHICH CASE IT ALL NIGHT TO RECHARGE BACK. TO 100%. JUST KEEPING IN MIND ABOUT THOSE CHARGE TIMES EITHER SIDE IS NOT THE AMOUNT OF TIME TO GET THE BATTERIES BACK. 

>> OKAY, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE DOING IT DIFFERENTLY NOW. WE HEARD DIFFERENT STORY FROM THE ENGINEER. HE MIGHT NOT TOTALLY GOTTEN IT EITHER. WE HEARD, THEY RECHARGE 100% EACH END. 

>> NO. 

>> OKAY. 

>> I HAVE BEEN APPROVAL ENGINEER. THERE'S ONE SWITCHBOARD ROOM ON THIS AMPERE. TO BE ABLE TO RUN WITHOUT EMERGENCY GENERATOR AND INSTALLATION MUST BE TOTALLY REDUNDANT, INDEPENDENT OF EACH OTHER. THIS WAS PLAN TO HAVE EMERGENCY GENERATOR FROM THE BEGINNING. IF YOU HAVE PIER ELECTRICAL FERRY AND YOU GET A BATTERY FIRE. HOW TO EXTINGUISH IT IF YOU DON'T HAVE POWER TO DRAW THE PUMPS. 

>> THANKS. I THINK THE MAIN LESSON LEARNED FROM THESE VISITS FOR ME WAS REALLY.  ELECTRICAL INFRASTRUCTURE. THAT SEEM TO BE A BOTTLENECK IN THESE BOATS. MORE THAN ANYTHING THAT WAS ON THE BOAT ITSELF. 

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. VERY INTERESTING PRESENTATION. [APPLAUSE] NEXT IS ---[INDISCERNIBLE] 

>> I LIKE FOR YOU TO DO IF YOU HAVE NOT THROWN AWAY YOUR LUNCH, YOU CAN TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY NOW. I WILL FORCE EVERYONE TO STAND UP, TAKE YOUR STUFF AND MOVE TO ANOTHER TABLE WITH THE APPROPRIATE COLORED DOT SITTING NEXT TO A DIFFERENT PERSON THAN WHAT YOU WERE SITTING NEXT TO BEFORE. I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY BEARING WITH US. GRAB AN OPEN CHAIR. EWANT TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE TALKING TO PEOPLE YOU DON'T KN KNOW. THIS AFTERNOON WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT APPLICATIONS. I WANT YOU TO -- PLEASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE TWO LIST ON YOUR NOTES AT THE TABLE. THE FIRST LIST IS WHAT YOU THINK OF -- WE TALKED A FEW APPLICATIONS THAT WILL BE MORE THIS AFTERNOON. THE THREE MARINE APPLICATIONS, LIKE A FERRY, LIKE A TUG BOAT. THAT YOU THINK ARE THE MOST USEFUL TO APPLY BATTERY TECHNOLOGY TO. THEN YOUR SECOND LIST, YOU WILL LIST OUT WHAT DO YOU THINK THE THREE PRIMARY VALUES THAT YOU CAN GET OUT OF USING THAT TECHNOLOGY. WE SAW SOME THIS MORNING WHEN WE LOOKED A THE IDEAS. SILENCE, CLEAN, I THINK COST WAS UP HERE NEGATIVE, THE COST CAN BE A BENEFIT AS WELL. YOU WILL LIST YOUR THREE MOST INTERESTING APPLICATIONS, HYBRID OR FULL ELECTRIC FERRY, FOR EXAMPLE. YOU WILL LIST YOUR THREE MOST IMPORTANT VALUES THAT YOU GET FROM THE TECHNOLOGY. YOU GET TWO MINUTES TO DO AND THEN YOU'LL HAVE YOUR TABLE SHARE. PEOPLE ON.  PHONE AND LISTENING ALL DAY, YOU CAN FEEL FREE TO E-MAIL IN YOUR SUGGESTIONS FOR THIS STUFF. I THINK WE'VE HAD SOME GOOD CONVERSATION. IT'S TIME TO SHARE. WE'LL BE COMING AROUND WITH A MICROPHONE AND WE'LL BE ASKING TABLES TO TELL US YOUR MOST INTERESTING APPLICATIONS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THREE. YOU CAN DO ONE. SOME OF YOUR VALUED DRIVERS ARE. WHO WANTS TO GO FIRST? 

>> FOR APPLICATIONS, WE WERE LOOKING FOR ESSENTIALLY APPLICATIONS WITH IT WAS A LIMITED PROFILE. UNTIL TECHNOLOGY CONTINUES TO MATURE. FOR VALUE, WE WERE JUST STARTING TO BRAINSTORM ON THAT. ONE OF THE VALUES IS CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE. 

>> FEW OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT FOR APPLICATIONS WOULD BE LOAD SMOOTHING. MAYBE FOR A OFFSHORE VESSEL OR PATROL VESSEL LIKE COAST GUARD OR MILITARY VESSEL. FERRIES, WE TALKED ABOUT. ALSO TO GET AROUND SOME OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS, MAYBE AS AN EMERGENCY GENERATOR OR IMPORT LOADS WHEN -- LIKE 200 NAUTICAL MILES. THE VALUES WE GOT WERE CLEAN, EMISSION FREE. 

>> IN TERMS OF VALUE DRIVERS THAT WE SAW, EMISSIONS ALREADY MENTIONED. FUEL SAVINGS FOR THE OP X AND GAINS YOU CAN HAVE FOR THAT. DOESN'T LOOK LIKE MAINTENANCE IS UP THERE. RUNNING YOUR GENERATORS. JOE MENTIONED EARLIER ABOUT THE MOTORS MINIMAL WEAR AND TEAR IF YOU USE IT OPTIMALLY. BIG ADVANTAGE. THEN APPLICATIONS REALLY ANYTHING THAT HAS A REGULAR MODE OF OPERATION. FERRIES, AND THEN TUGS OFFSHORE VESSELS AS WELL. 

>> WE HAD A COUPLE AT THIS TABLE. ONE WOULD BE APPLICATION OF A HYBRID CAR FERRY THAT WILL BE DUAL SPEED. YOU TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE ALL ELECTRIC SPEED IN PERIODS OF LOW DEMAND AND HIGH DEMAND YOU WILL KICK IN REST OF THE MACHINERY. THE VALUES THERE WILL BE THE BETTER MATCHING YOUR COST WITH THE DEMAND AND CERTAINLY ALL THE OTHER ASPECTS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SAVINGS AND ENVIRONMENTAL SUBSTITUT ING. 

>> I CAN SHARE THE SECOND PART OF THAT TOO. BATTERIES, YOU GOT TO WRITE IT DOWN. IT'S GOING TO BE GOOD PROMISE YOU. BATTERIES CAN ALSO BE USED TO TIER THREE PLUS IN TERMS OF REGULATIONS THAT ARE COMING UP. IF YOU GET ABOVE 600 KILOWATTS YOU'LL HAVE TO GO TO TIER FOUR. ONE WAY TO INCREASE THE HORSEPOWER ABOVE THAT THRESHOLD IS THROUGH BATTERY POWER. 

>> ONE APPLICATION WE DISCUSSED THAT ISN'T ON THE LIST IS ONE JOE MENTIONED THAT'S POTENTIAL TO INTEGRATE WITH THE HYDROGEN FUEL CELL TECHNOLOGY TO BOARD THE VESSEL. VALUES WE TALKED ABOUT FUEL SAVINGS, EMISSION REDUCTIONS AND CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE. 

>> WE SEE APPLICATIONS ON A TRADE OFF THAT'S NEAR THE POPULATION. WE HAVE A PROJECT WE'RE LOOKING TO ADD INTO THE MARINE HIGHWAY PROGRAM WITH MARAD. WHERE MANY OF THE VESSELS OR PROJECTS LOOKING A, THE INDUSTRIAL BASE CHANGING WITHIN THE COASTAL GENTRIFICATION OF OUR INDUSTRY. THIS TYPE OF PROJECT WITH NO NOISE AND NO EMISSIONS WORKS TO THAT ADVANTAGE ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE SIDE WHERE SHE'S READILY ACCESSIBLE IN A DOCK OR MARINE WHERE IT DOESN'T BLOW BLACK SMOKE AROUND. 

>> MOST OF IT'S COVERED. WE PROBABLY SAY HIGH POWER FLUCTUATING LOAD APPLICATION. FOR VALUE DRIVERS, KIND OF ONE THAT'S NOT ONLY THERE WOULD BE RELIABILITY AND REDUNDANCY POWER SYSTEM CONTROL AND QUALITY. WE ALSO SAID -- YEAH KIND OF RELIABILITY. WE SAID FUEL CONSUMPTION AND EMISSIONS. 

>> SINCE MITCH IS ON VALUE DRIVERS, WE HAD POLLUTION CONTROL, ESSENTIALLY THE LACK OF POLLUTION THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH THESE TYPE OF SYSTEMS. HOW IT RESPONDS DIFFERENTLY TO TRADITIONAL DIESEL SYSTEMS. THIRD THING IS WHAT WE CALL RIDE EXPERIENCE, WHICH MAYBE FOLLOWS UNDER CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE OR NOISE OR LACK OF NOISE, LACK OF SMELL FROM EXHAUST AND LACK OF VIBRATION. ON THE APPLICATION SIDE, WE HAD HYBRID OSV OR OFFSHORE SUPPLY VESSEL. SPECIFICALLY HYBRID SYSTEM. RESEARCH VESSELS, THEY'RE WORKING IN DELICATE ECOSYSTEM. YOU WANT TO HAVE NON-POLLUTING COMPULSION SYSTEM. WE HAD VESSEL EVEN FROM A MARKETING STANDPOINT, WE'RE OPERATING IN SENSITIVE ENVIRONMENT, THE VALUE OF THE SYSTEM IS REALLY STRONG. 

>> WE HIT ON SOME OF THE SAME THINGS. APPLICATION WE HAD MORE SPECIFIC ONES. UNMANNED VESSELS, UNDER MAN UNDER WATER AND ABOVE WATER VESSELS. ON THE VALUE DRIVERS, FUEL CONSUMPTION REDUCTION. EFFICIENCY I GUESS. THEN LESS MAINTENANCE AND ENVIRONMENTAL BINS. 

>> NOBODY MENTION OF FISHING VESSEL S. 

>> CERTAIN TYPE OF FISHING VESSEL CAN MIXING IT. YOU HAVE TO PRIORITIZE THE HIGHEST -- THE APPLICATION -- MOST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK. I EXPECT TO GET TWO OR THREE THINGS. WE GOT A LIST OF 10 AND VERY LITTLE OVERLAP. WE REALLY GOT VERY BROAD SPECTRUM OF THINGS PEOPLE INTERESTED IN. WE'LL HAVE A PANEL HERE. WE'LL TALK ABOUT MILITARY APPLICATIONS. WE TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHER THING REST THROUGH THE REST OF THE CONFERENCE. WE WANT TO KEEP ORC IS, -- OSV'S AND TOURISM AS WE HAVE THE DISCUSSION. THAT'S IT I'M READY. 

>> THANKS. OUR NEXT PANEL PRESENTATION, WILL BE KEVIN. 

>> FIRST UP, WE HAVE JOHN HENSELL. HE SERVES AS THE LEAD FOR POWER AND ENERGY FOR THE PROGRAM AND FOR A NUMBER OF OFFICE OF NAVAL RESEARCH TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS. HE'S ALSO ACTING FOR THE FUTURE POWER AND ENERGY. JOHN HAS HIS PH.D. IN CHEMICAL ENGINEERING, FOCUSES ON THE INTEGRATION OF POWER GENERATION ENERGY SAVINGS. [APPLAUSE] 

>> I HAVE A HARD STOP. I WILL GET THROUGH THIS QUICK. I'M JUST GETTING MY VOICE BACK. HOPEFULLY IT DOESN'T FAIL ME. REALLY WHAT WE WANT TO START TO TALK ABOUT IS POWER ACCESSIBILITY. FROM THE MILITARY APPLICATION PERSPECTIVE, THERE ARE A THINGS TO BE SAID ABOUT RUNNING SINGLE GENERATOR OPERATIONS, MANIPULATING SPECIFIC FIELD CONSUMPTION AND THINGS LIKE THAT. FOR THE MOST PART, WHAT IS THE CAPABILITY THAT COMES TO THE TABLE BY INCLUDING ENERGY STORAGE. FIRST THING PEOPLE ASK, DON'T THESE SHIPS HAVE ALL KINDS OF POWER ALL READY. YOU GOT 75 PLUS MEGAWATTS OF POWER THERE. LOT OF IT'S MECHANIC CALL DRIVE. EVEN ON THE INTEGRATED POWER SYSTEMS, RESPONSE RATES OF MOVERS. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DEAL WITH THAT? YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE ACCESSIBILITY. THAT'S I MADE THE COMMENTS ABOUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT SEA RATE. I'M LOOKING AT HIGH POWER BATTERIES I MAY HAVE A MEGAWATT INSTALLED AND PULL 25 MEGAWATTS FROM IT. PRETTY AGGRESSIVE OPERATION. AGAIN, IT'S ALSO NOT TRULY OPERATIONS. WE DON'T FIRE RAIL GUNS ALL THE TIME. THE REST OF THE TIME YOU WANT TO LOOK FOR MULTIPLE USE AND HOW DOES THAT SUPPORT THE PLANT FOR MORE LINEUPS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AT THE END OF THE DAY, ACCESSING POWER IS REALLY THE KEY. REALLY WHAT IT COMES TO, IS YOU PUT ELECTRIC LOADS ON IT, THIS SLIDE IS MOVING AWAY FROM FUEL SAVINGS, EMISSIONS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. AS YOU PUT BIGGER MORE DYNAMIC ELECTRIC LOADS ON THE SHIPS, YOU HAVE TO START TO BE ABLE TO ACQUIRE THE APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF ELECTRICAL ENERGY. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS IT. YOU CAN'T ACCESS ALL THAT. GENERATION CAPABILITY THAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR PRIME MOVERS. YOU NEED IT START TO GET AWAY FROM THE TRADITIONAL ARCHITECTURES. GET THAT EXTRA POWER BY DOING MORE INTEGRATED SCHEMES. AGAIN, WE WANT TO LEVERAGE ALL OF THE INSTALLED POWER. PRIME MOVERS NEEDS TO BE BIG 30 PLUS MEGAWATT. GENERATOR, THEN HAVE POWER CONVERSION MODULES. WHAT THIS DISTRIBUTION IS, FOR THE FUTURE THAT'S ANYBODY'S GUESS. WE HAVE SHIPS THAT DISTRIBUTE POWER 450AC, SOME 138. LOOKING MORE AND MORE AT DISTRIBUTIONS. EVENT, IF THIS GUY DOESN'T POND PROPERLY, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET YOUR LOADS TO SUPPORT? YOU NEED TO MAKE THAT WORK. IT'S BENEFICIAL BECAUSE AGAIN, OPPOSED TO HAVING A PRIME MOVER, YOU CAN START TO USE IT AND LEARN THESE FOR ALL SORTS OF APPLICATIONS. LARGE EMISSION LOAD, BETTER SURVIVABILITY AND SO ON. IT'S REALLY IT'S THE MAKE OR BREAK REASON WE'RE SO INTERESTED IN HAVING LARGE ENERGY SCALE STORAGE. WHEN THEY'RE PART LOAD, THEY SUCK AIR LIKE YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE. THE SMALL SINGLE SPOOL IT'S A GREAT LOAD RESPONSE. YOU GET THEM REALLY BIG WHEN YOU WANT TO HAVE 50 OR 70-MEGAWATT STALLED POWER. THE MULTISPOOL SETS, THEY LOAD BETTER. YOU CAN BUY REALLY BIG ONE. HOW DO YOU NEGOTIATE WHAT'S THE RIGHT COMBINATION FROM A NAVAL ARCHITECTURE PERSPECTIVE FROM A LOAD AND FROM A DYNAMIC TRANSIENT LOAD, WEAPONS LOAD. ALL OF THESE ELEMENTS. HOW DO YOU GET TO THE RIGHT COMBINATION OF EQUIPMENT. YOU START TO FIND FROM WHAT'S COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE FROM GENERATION SIDE, WHAT YOU NEED TO SUPPORT FROM THE LOAD SIDE. WHERE WE MOVING FROM? TYPICALLY, THERE'S THOUSANDS OF LITTLE UPS COMBAT SYSTEMS UPS. ALL OVER THE PLACE. THESE ARE TYPICALLY USING BATTERIES BETWEEN 7 AND 150-AMP HOURS CAPACITY. REAL SMALL. KILOWATT KIND OF SCALE. OKAY, IF I DO ENERGY MAKE I CAN START CONSOLIDATE IT. AS WE LOOK TO THE FUTURE, THE FIRST THING IS HOW DO WE GET A BETTER IMPLEMENTATION OF POWER WHERE WE HAVE UPS BUS. AS WE MOVE FORWARD, YOU OKAY, FUEL SAVINGS. HOW DO YOU USE ENERGY STORAGE TO GIVE ME A MORE EFFICIENT PLANT LINEUP. LOT OF TIMES IT'S FROWNED UPON BUT IT'S INTERESTING COMMERCIAL MARITIME -- IT'S SOMETHING STARTING TO BE LOOKED AT SUSCEPTIBLE . LEARNING FROM COMMERCIAL MARITIME HOW THAT MIGHT BE IMPLEMENTED WOULD BE INTERESTING. SOME HAVE A VERY LARGE PARALLEL GEN SET . MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO LOT MORE OF THAT. FROM THERE, WE START TO LOOK AT IT AGAIN. I WANT TO GO TO MORE EFFICIENT PRIME POWERRERS -- MOVERS AND CHANGE THE RESPONSE RATE. I WANT TO HAVE FEWER LESS DYNAMIC GEN SETS ONLINE THAT WILL SEE FUEL IN TERMS OF HOW THEY OPERATE. HOW DO ELEVEN ENERGY SOURCE CONTINUOUSING ON THE BUS. THESE TWO ARE SITTING THERE AS UPS. WAITING TO GO AND IT'S GOING TO GET USED ONCE IT WILL GET CHARGED SLOWLY AND COME BACK. WE START TO LOOK AT MANIPULATE POWER QUALITY. NOW I'M GOING TO REGULARLY PUSH AND PULL ENERGY OFF MY BUS IN ORDER TO KEEP IT STABLE. IN CONCERT WITH THE DYNAMICS OF MY PRIME MOVERS. THAT'S WHERE LOT OF THESE DISTRIBUTIONS COME IN PLAY. EACH ONE WILL BE IMPLEMENTED DIFFERENTLY. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY IT'S ALLOWING YOU TO DO THESE ADVANCE PRIME MOVE ERS. BEYOND THE POINT, NO MATTER HOW STIFF YOUR POWER GENERATION SCHEME IS, YOU START TO HAVE BIG START TO HAVE BIG LOADS, ESPECIALLY LOADS THAT ARE IN EXCESS OF THE SIZE OF ANY ONE OF GEN SETS. HOW DO I START TO USE ENERGY STORAGE IN CONCERT WITH OR IN LIEU OF POWER GENERATION GEN WHAT WE SEE IS FUTURE OPERATION MODE, SOMETHING WE HAVE HYBRIDIZATION ENERGY STORAGE. THAT IS MULTIPLE ENERGY STORAGE DEVICES. WORKING IN CONCERT WITH THE GEN SET. TYPICALLY IF YOU HAVE A BIG LOAD LIKE THIS ONE, EITHER WAY OVER SIDE OR GEN SET ACCEPT IT. WE'VE LIMITED LOAD, WHICH IS UNACCEPTABLE IN TERMS OF CERTAIN STANDARDS. YOU HAVE A GIANT ENERGY STORAGE DEVICE. WAY OVER SIDE AND ALLOW YOU TO FULLY ACCEPT THAT LOAD. HOW DO WE GET THE GEN SET INTO AN ACCEPTABLE OFF LOAD MODE. ACCEPTABLE RANGE THAT ALLOWS MAINTAIN POWER QUALITY ON THE BUS. OFFSET SOME OF THAT DYNAMIC LOAD TO ONE OR MULTIPLE TYPES OF ENERGY STORAGE. AGAIN, SOMETIMES IT'S NOT EVEN THE RISING EDGE. IT'S THE FALLING EDGE THAT'S A PROBLEM. YOU DROP LOAD, YOU GOT A LOT OF -- YOU GOT TO ABSORB THAT BACK INTO ANOTHER ENERGY SOURCES. OPTIMIZE STORAGE BUFFERING OF THE PRIME MOVER IN ORDER TO GET THINGS TO WORK. DIFFERENT APPROACHES. THERE'S BATTERIES. TYPICALLY WE USE LITHIUM PHOSPHATE. ALL HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T HAVE -- RELEASE OF OXYGEN AND RELEASE OF HEAT IS THE BIGGER SCARE THAT HAVING TO DEAL WITH THE VOLATILE OR CHEMICAL. WE KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH LEL AND UEL PLAY THAT RANGE WITH ORGANICS IN A SPACE . WE'RE ABLE TO COMPROMISE, ESPECIALLY MORE POUR OPERATIONS -- WE DID A LOT OF WORK IN THE PAST. SOME OF THE COMPANIES WE'RE WORKING WITH ENDED GETTING SOLD OVERSEAS. WHEN WE'RE TALKING BATTERIES, WE'RE LOOKING FOR FUTURE INNOVATION. WHETHER THAT MEANS LIKE MAGNESIUM ION. THAT WOULD BE GREAT. IF WE CAN GET THE POWER OUT, WE'LL GET THE PERFORMANCE. SAFETY BEHAVIORS. ALL COMES BACK TO SAFETY. LARGE EMBEDDED SYSTEM TO BE PUT ON TO A WARSHIP. PART OF THAT QUALIFICATION SAFETY IS HOW YOU GET A SOLID BMS AND SENSING KIT IN THERE TO HELP MAINTAIN, PREVENT ABUSIVE CONDITIONS AND KNOWING IF WILL HAVE A RELEASE. HYBRIDS -- MAYBE ONE OF THOSE WILL BE LIKE A FLY WHEEL. HIGH-RISE BATTERIES AND FLY WHEEL BATTERIES, ALL DIFFERENT SCHEMES IN ORDER TO GIVE YOU THE ALTHOUGH -- ABILITY TO PUSH AND PULL ENERGY. YOU CONNECT THE LOAD. DIFFERENT TYPES OF SCHEMES. IT MAY USE DISPATCH CHARACTERISTICS, MIGHT LET YOU BUY CERTAIN NUMBER OF LINE REPLACEMENT. ALLOW YOU TO HAVE COMMON ENERGY STORAGE COMPONENTS. YOU STACK UP BASED UPON YOUR CONNECTED LOAD. YOU LOAD THEM. FLY WHEELS PROBABLY MORE FORWARD LOOKING. THIS IS REALLY A BATTERY CENTRIC DISCUSSION. I'M NOT A BELIEVER THAT ANY ONE TECHNOLOGY IS END ALL AND BE ALL SOLUTION. THERE ARE A -- THERE HAVE TO BE MORE IN TUNE WITH DYNAMIC TRANSIENT LOADS. THIS IS HOW WE LOOK AT IT IN TERMS OF CURRENT TECHNOLOGY. GENERALLY WE'RE TALKING 7 TO 134-AMP POWER. THESE ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE. THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITY FOR LITHIUM ION IN PLACE. ARMIES DOING THAT NOW, LOOKING AT THE LITHIUM 6T BATTERY. IF THE POWER SIDE AND WE TRYING TO GENERATE LOT OF EVERYDAY TO THIS END. LESS INTERESTED IN MASSIVELY PARALLEL SMALL CELLS. PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT FOR LOW POWERED ENERGY RATIO TYPE OF SYSTEM. WE HAVE A LOT OF DYNAMIC DISCHARGE. VERY BIG VARIATION IN THE BEHAVIORS OF THE CELL. GENERALLY LARGE FORM OF LITHIUM ION IS WHAT WE'RE INTERESTED. LITHIUM ION COMES TO BAGGAGE. 78 787. THIS ALL COMES IN PLAY. SAFETY PARAMOUNT. WE CAN MAKE DO WITH THE APPROPRIATE CHEMISTRY, THAT'S GOOD. ENGINEERING DESIGN AND CONTROLS, ABUSIVE TESTING MITIGATION. THAT'S OUR ABUSIVE TESTING MACHINE. THIS IS HOW THE NAVY SAYS YOU WILL TEST AND CHARACTERIZE NOT ONLY THE BATTERIES ON A TEST TUBE FAILURE BASIS BUT ALSO HOW THE BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM BEHAVE S. SG270 ALLOWS TO YOU LOOK AT PLATFORMS AND SAFETY RESTEPS. THIS IS A GUIDANCE THAT THE NAVY HAS WITH THEIR SAFETY NOW. I DO BELIEVE WE NEED TO HAVE A DESIGN CRITERIA PRACTICE MANUEL. WE'RE NOT THERE YET. THIS IS JUST TALKING -- EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS. MOST APPLICATIONS ARE IN THE 10 TO 15 TARGET RANGE. MAYBE 4 TO 15C RATE CHARGE. LFP STARTS TO BECOME A DECENT COMPROMISE. THAT'S GENERALLY THE WAY WE'VE GONE. THE RELEASE OF SOMETHING LIKE LFP WE CAN AFFORD. VERY MINUSCULE -- THIS IS WHERE IT COMES DOWN TO. PLAN EFFICIENCY. LIKE NEXT GENERATION FUEL CELLS. WE DONE A LOT OF FIELD CELL IN THE NAVY. WE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT PERFORMANCE-BASED FUEL CELLS. HOW DO YOU TAKE THE STANDARD LIQUID FUEL VERY GOOD ENERGY, FORM THEM INTO A CLEAN ENOUGH HYDROGEN SCREEN. TAKING THOSE DIFFERENT SCHEMES THROUGH PLAN EFFICIENCY AND COUPLING THAT WITH ACCESS POWER, GETTING THAT TO EFFICIENT SCHEME THAT YOU CAN SUPPORT THE KILL CHAIN WITH ELECTRIC WEAPONS AND SON ON. THIS IS ARE JUST THE OPPORTUNITIES. POWER CONVERSIONS. YOU HEARD LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE POWER CONVERSIONS THEY ARE LARGE EXPENSIVE. TAKE UP A LOT OF SPACE. THAT'S TRUE. INNOVATIVE MEANS OF MEASURING THE TRANSIENT LOAD, THERMAL COMMONLITY. ALL DIFFERENT AREAS. THIS IS ONE WHERE -- PRESENT AND PERSONALLING -- EMERGING THREAT WILL DRIVE THE NEED FOR MORE TRANSIENT LOADS. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE CAN SUPPORT PROPER NAVAL DESIGN, LOAD SUPPORT OF FROST, THE LIFECYCLELY, APPROPRIATE MARGIN AND SO ON. I THINK THAT'S THE END. SORRY, I WENT LATE. [APPLAUSE] 

>> THANK YOU JOHN. 

>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER PANEL. WE'LL DO A REQUEST AND ANSWER SEG SESSION AFTER THAT. SECOND PANEL HERE WILL BE TAG TEAM APPROACH TO PRESENTATION. SEVERAL PEOPLE COME UP. I'LL INTRODUCE THEM ONE AT A TIME THOUGH. 

>> GREG HAS OVERALL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MANAGER OF ALL HMS DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL FERRY OPERATIONS. HE SERVES AS A BOARD MEMBER OF THE PARENT COMPANY PROVIDES EXECUTIVE SUPPORT TO VARIOUS CORPORATE WIDE INITIATIVES AND BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES. GREG IS AN ENGINEER GRADUATE OF THE CALIFORNIA MARITIME ACADEMY. AS HAS BEEN MBA IN LOGISTICS IN LONDON. HE SAILED IN ALLIANCE POSITIONS ON COMMERCIAL VESSELS UNDER DECK AND VERRING DEPARTMENT. SERVED AS VICE PRESIDENT AND DETECTOR OF THE ALASKAN MARINE HIGHWAY POSITION. AND PRESIDENT OF THE CIVIC NAVIGATION COMPANY. 

>> THANKS KEVIN. FANTASTIC CONFERENCE SO FAR. WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS AND GREAT ATTENDANCE. IT'S GREAT SEE ALL OF YOU HERE. WE'RE DOING THIS AS A PANEL. WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A BETTER WAY TO COVER THE TOPIC TOGETHER. WHAT WE'LL DO, WHEN WE GET OEACH PERSON, WE'LL PASS TO KEVIN AND DO THE INTRODUCTIONS. WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHY WE'RE INTERESTED IN HYBRID TECHNOLOGY. WE'LL TALK ABOUT ONE OF OUR SPECIFIC PROJECTS. WE'LL TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE TECHNOLOGICAL ASPECTS OF THAT PROJECT. WHY WE SELECTED THAT PROJECT. WE'LL TALK ABOUT SOME OTHER PROJECTS WE'VE DONE. HAVING TO DO WITH HYBRID AND ELECTRIC. WHERE WE MIGHT BE GOING WITH THIS. REALLY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE FAMILY OF BUSINESSES, YOU MAY OR MAY NOT HEARD THE NAME. WE'RE A DIRECTION OF COMPANY DE, COLLECTION OF COMPANIES. WE'RE INVOLVED IN HOSPITALITY, TRAVEL, SUPPORT SERVICE. WE PROVIDE SERVICES TO GOVERNMENT, PRIVATE SECTOR AND DIRECT CONSUMERS. COLLECTIVELY, WE'RE THE LARGEST DOMESTIC OPERATOR OF PASSENGER VESSELS IN THE U.S. SEGMENT OF OUR VESSELS IS PASSENGER ONLY FERRIES. WE OPERATE AUTOMOBILE FERRIES. SOME SPECIALTY IN DISCUSSION -- EXCURSION IN VESSEL. WE OPERATE HIGH SPEED FERRIES WE OPERATE THEM FOR THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. OTHER GOVERNMENT PROJECTS GOVERNMENT VESSELS. WE OPERATE OVERNIGHT CRUISE LINE. WE ALSO OPERATE DINNER CRUISE VESSELS . BEGINNING OF OUR COMPANY CAME FROM DINNER CRUISE VESSELS. WE OPERATE NATIONAL PARK SESSION, WE HAVE STATUTE LIBERTY IN ALCATRAZ ISLAND. WE OPERATE IN NIAGARA FALLS FOR THE CANADIAN PARK SERVICE. THROUGH A NEW COMPANY WE STARTED, WE'RE THE SELECTEDDED OPERATOR. OPERATING FOR THE CITY OF NEW YORK. THAT GOES INTO SERVICE THIS COMING YEAR. 2017, FIRST QUARTER. I TALLIED THIS UP YESTERDAY. WHEN YOU ADD UP ALL THE OPERATIONS, WE'RE MOVING APPROXIMATELY 22 MILLION PASSENGER SEGMENTS PER YEAR. IF YOU PUT THAT IN CONTEXT LIKE WASHINGTON STATE FERRIES, THEY'RE LIKE 23 OR 24 MILLION, WE'RE AT 22. NEW YORK OPERATION THAT'S ANOTHER 5. WE'LL SURPASS WASHINGTON STATE FERRIES. WHY ARE WE INTERESTED IN HYBRID AND ELECTRIC? THE FACT IS THAT FOSSIL FUELS ARE ON THEIR WAY OUT. YOU'RE HEARING THAT MORE AND MORE. THE REASON WE'RE HERE TODAY IS INDICATION THIS IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING. THIS TECHNOLOGY IS A CUTTING EDGE OR IT'S OUT IN THE FUTURE. IT'S HAPPENING NOW. THE INDUSTRY AND THE WORLD IS REALLY MOVING AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUEL. AS QUOTE, REGARDLESS WHAT YOUR VIEWS ARE ON THINGS LIKE CLIMATE CHANGE AND ENVIRONMENT, THAT'S AN ABSOLUTE SHIFT AWAY FROM COAL AND OIL TOWARDS LOWER CARBON FUELS. IT'S GOING TO BRING AN END TO THE OLD AGE. WE BELIEVE THAT. YOU SEE THAT. YOU'VE THAT IN CONSUMPTION NUMBERS. THEY USED TO TALK ABOUT THIS THING CALLED PEAK DEMAND. EVERYONE WAS AFRAID WE'LL RUN OUT OF OIL. WHAT WE'RE SEEING, WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO REACH A POINT OF PEAK DEMAND FIRST. PEAK OF DEMAND WILL START DROPPING OFF BEFORE THE SUPPLY WILL. WE BELIEVE THAT'S HAPPENING. THAT'S THE FIRST ASPECT. IT JUST COME OF AGE. THIS TECHNOLOGY HAS COME OF AGE. WE'VE HEARD A NUMBER OF TEAM TALK ABOUT THIS TODAY. MANY OF YOU ARE FULLY AWARE OF THIS. WE CERTAINLY AGREE WITH IT. WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE INDUSTRY, THE COST OF THE TECHNOLOGY IS GOING DOWN. IF YOU LOOK LOOK -- THE TECHNOLOGY IS MORE AVAILABLE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE AVAILABILITY OF VARIOUS GRANTS THAT ARE OUT THERE, THAT'S A BIG BARRIER CAPITAL EXPENDITURES THAT HELPS MAKE IT PENCIL FOR SURE. THAT'S AN INCENTIVE FOR THE INDUSTRY TO ADOPT THE NEW TECHNOLOGY. THEN WE TALK ABOUT THE OPERATING EXPENSE ADVANTAGES. OTHER THING IS INNOVATION IS FUN. WE CAN'T HELP OURSELVES. IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE INVOLVED IN THESE KIND OF THINGS. TO STEP OUT AND TO ACTUALLY PUT THEM INTO PRACTICE. YOU'LL HEAR HERE IN A MOMENT PLACES WHERE WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT. THIS HELPS YOU UNDERSTAND WHY. AS A COMPANY, ONE OF OUR CORE VALUES IS SAFETY. WE DON'T TAKE THAT LIGHTLY. IT'S SOMETHING WE LIVE AND BREATHE EVERYDAY. TEAM WORK, INTEGRITY BUT INNOVATION IS RIGHT UP THERE. WE'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT OF OURSELVES AS AN INNOVATIVE COMPANY. THE CORE VALUE OF INNOVATION IN OUR COMPANY IS WE ENCOURAGE INNOVATION TO ENHANCE OUR COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE. LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S FUN. IT'S FUN TO BE INVOLVED IN THESE KIND OF THINGS. TO BE INVOLVED IN NEW PROJECTS. HERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF PROJECT COMING UP. WE'RE GOING TO PASS OVER TO TIM McGEARY. IT'S A PROJECT THAT'S ACTIVE NOW. I'LL LET KEVIN CUE THAT UP. I'LL BRING UP TIM'S PRESENTATION. 

>> TIM McGEARY IS THE GENERAL MANAGER FOR HMS FERRIES ALABAMA. HE HAS THREE ALABAMA D.O.T. FERRIES. PREVIOUSLY SERVED 26 YEARS INCLUDING BOARD OF U.S. COAST GUARD CUTTERS, FACILITIES ENGINEER FROM TWO COAST GUARD GROUPS. CHIEF PILOT. OPERATIONS OFFICER, AVIATION TRAINING AUTOMOBILE ALABAMA. HE WORKED IN THE FLIGHT OFFICER FOR JETBLUE AIRLINES AND A NAVAL SCIENCE INSTRUCTOR. HIS CAREER INCLUDES BS IN CIVIL ENGINEERING AND MASTERS IN ADMINISTRATION. 

>> CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME ALL RIGHT? WHY THE GEES BEND FERRY. I WAS SITTING AT THE FIRST TABLE. ROGER HAD ASKED ME, WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT IF YOU GUYS DID THIS WITH THE GOVERNOR'S ISLAND FERRY YOU HAD UP THERE. I SMILED AT HIM AND SAID YES, PERHAPS IT WILL. WE'LL START WITH THE GEES BEND FERRY. WE HAVE A LOT OF REASONS FOR DOING THAT. WE HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT FERRIES AROUND THE U.S. SOME ARE MUCH SMALLER . SOME ARE FAIRLY LARGE PASSENGER VEHICLE FERRIES. THE GEE BENDS FERRIES IS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE. YOU LOOK AT THE LOCATION AND YOU THINK, GEE BENDS FERRY? WHERE IS THAT? THE GEES BEND FERRY WORKS FOR THREE BIG REASONS. REN NUMBER ONE IS LOCATION, LOCATION. THE REASON NUMBER TWO IT'S WORKING NOW IS WE HAVE A VERY DEDICATED AND INSPIRED TEAM THAT'S COME TOGETHER TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. REASON NUMBER THREE, SORRY THAT'S NOT SHOWING UP WELL, THE GEE BENDS FERRY OPERATIONAL PROFILE SETS WELL FOR STARTING SOMETHING LIKE THIS OFF. WE HEARD THAT THROUGHOUT THE MORNING ALL READY. HERE'S WHERE GEES BEND IS AT. YOU CAN SEE IT'S CO-LOCATED IN AREA CALLED CAMDEN. WHICH IS ONE SIDE OF THE ALABAMA RIVER IT GOES ACROSS THE ALABAMA RIVER TO GEES BEND. IT'S OFFICIAL NAME OF THE COMMUNITY CALLED BOYKIN, ALABAMA. LOCAL RESIDENTS CALLED IT GEES BEND. YOU LOOK AT THAT, WOW, THAT'S A FAIRLY LIGHTLY POPULATED AREA IN A FAIRLY LIGHTLY POPULATED REGION. IT'S NOT SO POPULATED STATE. WHY IS THAT A GOOD LOCATION? I WILL GIVE YOU SOME REASONS. NONE OF THESE REASONS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TODAY. BEAR WITH ME. I PROMISE AISLE DOUBLE BACK -- I'LL DOUBLE BACK. OF COURSE WHEN WE WE WERE KICKING THIS AROUND, ALL OF THE REASONS THAT WE PUT UP ON THE WALL THERE APPLIED. COST, ENVIRONMENTAL REASONS, EFFICIENCIES, ALL OF THOSE THINGS WERE PUT OUT THERE. BUT THERE WERE ADDITIONAL REASONS. I WANTED TO SHARE THESE WITH YOU BECAUSE THIS IS FROM AN OPERATOR'S PERSPECTIVE. I SHOULD SAY THIS, I MANAGED THE FERRY. WE DON'T OWN IT. WE RUN IT FOR A CLIENT. THAT CLIENT IN THIS CASE, JUST LIKE ALL FERRIES, WE RUN THEM FOR CLIENTS. THAT CLIENT IS THE STATE OF ALABAMA OR ALABAMA'S DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. MY REASONS ARE, IF YOU LOOK AND THERE, THE FERRY IS HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT TO THE AREA. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT HAS TO DO WITH CIVIL RIGHTS. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BATTERY TECHNOLOGY. THE FERRY ITSELF IS AN IMPORTANT SYMBOL FOR THAT REGION. NUMBER TWO, THE FERRY WITH CIVIL IS A VERY IMPORTANT LINK BETWEEN THE HISTORICALLY AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY OF GEES BEND AND THE COUNTY SERVICES THAT THOSE PEOPLE AND FOLKS AND RESIDENTS OF GEES BEND REQUIRE IN CAMDEN. IF THEY DON'T HAVE THAT FERRY, THEY'RE DRIVING SOMETHING HOUR AND A HALF TO GET TO COUNTY SERVICES. NUMBER THREE, THE GEES BEND IS THE HOME OF RURAL FAMOUS QUOTERS. I SAY QUOTERS, BUT REALLY IT'S FOLK ART. SOME OF THESE QUOTES, THEY'RE INTERNATIONALLY KNOWN AND SOLD. THEY ARE WORTH 10S, 20 AND 30 THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, QUILTS. YOU CAN SEE FROM THAT SLIDE. IT'S IN A RURAL AREA IN ALABAMA. DEPENDING ON THE STATISTICS IF YOU LOOK AT, GEES BEND AND CAMDEN AND WILCOX COUNTY IS CONSIDERED ONE OF THE POOREST REGIONS IN THE UNITED STATES. WILCOX COUNTY, BECAUSE OF THE -- ACTUALLY VERY PRISTINE THAT RELIES ON HUNTING AND FISHING. IT'S A BEAUTIFUL ENVIRONMENT. THOSE ARE FIVE REASONS. HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BATTERY TECHNOLOGY. ABOUT A YEAR AGO WHEN I STARTED TO COME TOGETHER. WE WERE IN A CAPITAL PLANNING MEETING WITH THE OFFICIALS. FOR NOT JUST THE GEES BEND FERRY BUT FOR THE THREE FERRIES THAT OPERATES. I THINK IT WAS GREG THAT PROPOSED THE IDEA. HEY, WOULDN'T IT BE NEAT -- WE TALKED ABOUT THE AMPERE, THE FIRST 100% BATTERY ELECTRIC FERRY IN THE WORLD. WE THOUGHT, WOULDN'T IT BE NEAT IF ALABAMA HAD THE FIRST 100% BATTERY ELECTRIC PASSENGER VEHICLE FERRY IN THE UNITED STATES? THE FOLKS IN THAT MEETING, IMMEDIATELY GOT THEIR INTEREST. THE REASON IT GOT THEIR INTEREST IS, THIS IS A MEANS THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE MUCH MORE VALUE TO THE TAXPAYERS IN ALABAMA. I TOLD YOU I WOULD DOUBLE BACK TO OTHER REASONS. WE GOT THEIR INTEREST. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THIS IS A PUBLICLY RUN FERRY. THEY SAID, WE'RE INTERESTED BUT WE DON'T WANT TO BEAR THE WHOLE COST. GREG SAID OKAY, NO PROBLEM. HE LOOKED OVER AT ME. HE GAVE SEAN A CALL. SAID, LET'S GO HELP THEM FIND SOME FUNDING. AS YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOKING FOR GRANT MONEY, YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO SELL THE STORY. THAT'S WHERE THOSE REASONS REALLY PLAYED A BIG PART WITH THE GEES BEND FERRY. IT IS A STORY THAT PEOPLE WANTED TO TELL. IT IS A STORY THAT THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY WANTED TO TELL BECAUSE THAT WAS WHO WE WENT TO FOR GRANT MONEY. WE HAVE SUCCESSFULLY COMPETED FOR A $1.1 MILLION BRANDT TO HELP MAKE THIS, GRANT TO HELP MAKE THIS CONVERSION A REALITY. I SHARE THAT WITH YOU BECAUSE THIS IS A VERY DIVERSE GROUP OF FOLKS IN HERE. WHEN YOU LOOKING FOR REASONS WHY YOUR CUSTOMERS MAY DO THIS. THE REASONS VARIES. NOT JUST COST AND EFFICIENCY IN THE ENVIRONMENT, IT CAN BE TELL A STORY WITH THIS. THROUGH THIS EFFORT THOUGH, IT WASN'T JUST TALKING WITH EPA AND AIL DOT. WE HAVE ALABAMA AND DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, EPA, HMS. YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND ADD ALABAMA POWER. YOU CAN ADD PIONEER ELECTRIC. YOU CAN ADD CONGRESSWOMAN OFFICE WITH LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR'S OFFICE. ALL OF THESE FOLKS ONCE THEY HEARD ABOUT THE PROJECT, THEY GOT EXCITED ABOUT IT. THEY ALL WANTED TO BE A PART OF THAT TEAM. IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER. I TALKED ABOUT THE LOCATIONS. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE ENTIRED INDIVIDUALS WHO CAME TOGETHER TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. LET'S TALK ABOUT WHY IT MAKES SENSE FROM AN OPERATIONAL STANDPOINT. I THINK IT WAS ROGER THAT ASKED ME, WHY NOT THE GOVERNOR'S ISLAND FERRY UP IN NEW YORK CITY? WELL, AGAIN, PERHAPS THAT WILL BE. WE WANTED TO SET OURSELVES UP. WHEN YOU GET NEW TECHNOLOGY, ULTIMATE TO MAKE SURE -- YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU SET YOURSELVES UP TO SUCCEED. OUR PRESENT EXPERIENCE WITH IT, THIS IS A PROJECT WE COULD SUCCEED WITH. IF YOU LOOK AT THE DEPARTURES UP THERE, IF YOU LOOK CAREFULLY, YOU CAN SEE THIS FERRY DOES FIVE ROUND TRIPS A DAY. THAT'S NOT A VERY HEAVY FERRY SCHEDULE. MOST OF YOU WHO DEAL WITH OPERATORS THAT DO MUCH HEAVIER SCHEDULES, WE HEARD ABOUT THAT FROM THE AMPERE, THE SCHEDULE THAT THEY WERE GOING BY. IF YOU LOOK AT THIS, YOU CAN SEE 10 MINUTES TO RECHARGE. WE HAVE ALL SORTS OF -- COUPLE OF HOURS TO RECHARGE AT TIMES. THERE'S A LOT OF EXCESS CAPACITY IN THERE TO BE CAPITALIZED ON. WHY ELSE IS A GOOD OPERATIONAL PROFILE? THE LEG LENGTH IS -- DID I SKIP ONE WITH THE PICTURE OF THE RIVER? THERE WE GO. YOU CAN SEE THIS IS THE RUN FROM CAMDEN TO GEES BEND. 1.4 NAUTICAL MILES RUN. IT USUALLY TAKES 10 MINUTE, USUALLY NO LONGER THAN 15 MINUTES. IT'S A SHORT TRIP WITH AMPLE TIME TO CHARGE IN BETWEEN. ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE LOOKING AT AND IT'S BENEFICIAL TO SEE THE PRESENTATION ON THE AMPERE. HOW THEY WERE CONNECTING TO THE FERRY LANDING. TYPICALLY WHAT WE'VE DONE WITH THE DIESEL ENGINES, WE SIT THERE AND PUSH AGAINST THE FERRY LANDING WITH THE ENGINES RUNNING FOR PROBABLY 30 OR 40 MINUTES. THAT'S ALL EXTRA DIESEL EMISSIONS THAT WILL BE ABLE TO REDUCE. SEEING THAT TECHNOLOGY FOR ARE THE AMPERE WAS VERY BENEFICIAL. BECAUSE OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE THERE, WE'LL BE ABLE TO CHARGE BOTH SIDES OF THE RIVER. WE CAN CHARGE CHARGING STATION. THAT WILL GIVE US THE OPPORTUNITY. DO YOU HAVE TO CHARGE YOUR BOTH SIDES OF THE RIVER? NO. THAT'S UP FOR ENGINEERS TO DECIDE. BUT THAT OPPORTUNITY IS THERE. CERTAINLY GIVES YOU MORE CAPABILITIES. AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, ONLY FIVE ROUND TRIPS. COULD WE BE DOING THIS WITH GOVERNOR'S ISLAND OR PIERCE COUNTY UP IN SEATTLE? SURE, WE WANTED TO START WITH SOMETHING THAT GAVE US THE OPPORTUNITY TO SUCCEED. I PUT DOWN THERE PHASE TWO WITH A QUESTION MARK ON IT. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS -- THIS ISN'T PART OF OUR PROPOSAL NOW. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WAS VERY ATTRACTIVE WITH THE GEES BEND FERRY, BECAUSE A RULE NATURE OF IT, THERE'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF REAL ESTATE AROUND BOTH OF THE FERRY LANDINGS. PHASE TWO COULD BE DO WE INSTALL SOLAR PANELS AND TAKE IT TOTALLY OFF THE GRID? THAT'S CERTAINLY IS UNDER CONSIDERATION AS WELL. IT'S REALLY NEAT OPPORTUNITY FOR HMS FERRIES TO DO THIS WITH THE GEES BEND. WE THINK IT WILL WORK VERY WELL. AS I CLOSE OUT, I WANTED TO LEAVE YOU GUYS WITH HOPEFULLY A COUPLE KEY POINTS THAT YOU KIND OF HEARD IN THE TONES WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING. ONE IS, THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR THESE TYPES OF CONVERSIONS. IN PLACES THAT YOU MIGHT NOT CONSIDER. I DON'T THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE WOULD BE LOOKING AT THE GEES BEND FERRY WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING AT DOING THIS TYPE OF CONVERSION. THESE PLACES EXIST AROUND THE UNITED STATES IN PLACES YOU NEVER LOOKED. NUMBER TWO IS, THIS IS WHAT SURPRISED ME THE MOST. I FOUND THE MOST EXCITING IS THE ENTHUSIASM FROM PEOPLE THAT WANT TO BE PART OF THESE TYPE OF PROJECTS. IT'S REALLY VERY AMAZING. LET ME CLOSE BY SHARING WITH YOU. WHEN I CALLED CONGRESSWOMAN OFFICE, I CALLED LIEUTENANT GOVERNMENT IVIE'S OFFICE, THEY HAD LETTERS OF SUPPORT TO ME THE NEXT MORNING FOR THE APPLICATION. IF THAT DOESN'T TELL YOU THE LEVEL OF ENTHUSIASM THAT THEY HAVE FOR THESE PROJECTS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL. THANK YOU GUYS FOR YOUR TIME. IT'S LIKE WATCHING THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL. I GOTTEN SO MUCH INFORMATION. 

>> THANK YOU TIM. THERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF INNOVATION IS FUN. IT'S A PROJECT THAT EVERYTHING LINED UP PERFECTLY. WE'RE INVOLVED IN CAPITAL PLANNING, REALLY WITH ALL OUR CLIENTS IN THE FERRY DIVISION. HERE'S AN EXAMPLE. DIDN'T MAKE SENSE TO PUT THE OLD TECHNOLOGY BACK IN THAT VESSEL. STAY TUNED. THIS IS AN ACTIVE -- WE GOT NOTICE OF THE GRANT AWARD. WE'LL BE STARTING ENGINEERING BEGINNING OF THE NEW YEAR. WE'LL BE IN CONSTRUCTION PHASE END OF NEXT YEAR. WE'LL BE IN SERVICE SPRING OF 2018. WE'LL SHIFT OVER TO SEAN. WE'LL GET AN INTRODUCTION HERE. WE'LL EXPLAIN SOME OF THE TECHNOLOGICAL ASPECTS OF THE PROJECT. 

>> SEAN HAS WORKS FOR GLOSSSON. HE HELPED IN DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL SOLUTION. MARINE VESSELS FOR OVER 10 YEARS. HE HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN NUMEROUS ENVIRONMENTAL FRIENDLY ALTERNATIVE FUEL MARINE VESSELS. HE JOINED GLASSTON IN 2003. 

>> THANK YOU. EVERYBODY CAN HEAR ME ALL RIGHT? WE SEEN THIS ONE. I'M GOING TO TRY TO GET ALONG WITH THE NEW STUFF. I WANT TO THANK MARAD AND THANK HMS. THIS HAS BEEN A GREAT PARTNERSHIP. AS THIS TEAM HAS GROWN, IT'S BEEN REALLY GRATIFYING TO BE A PART OF IT. THE IDEA JUST GOING BOTH WAYS, LOTS OF FLOW AND ENERGY. TIM DID COVER SOME OF THIS PROJECT BACKGROUND. THIS IS BASICALLY -- I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SCOPE OF THE PROJECT ON A TECHNICAL LEVEL. BATTERY SIZING, CHARGING SCENARIOS, WE'LL LOOK AT EASEMENT CHUL ARRANGEMENTS. TALK ABOUT SHORE POWER WHICH IS A CHALLENGE. VESSEL MAINTENANCE COSTS ARE GROWING. THAT IS A CONCERN AS ANY VESSEL IS. WHAT DO YOU DO? ARE YOU GOING TO REPOWER IT? ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP IT GOING? OR MAYBE YOU CHANGE THE COMPULSION SYSTEM . THIS STARTED FOR US A YEAR AGO. GREG APPROACHED ME AT A CONFERENCE JUST LIKE THIS. HEY, I GOT THAT GREAT PROJECT. LET'S TALK. WE DID A BRIEF LOOK AT THIS AND DETERMINED THAT IN MARCH OF THIS YEAR, THIS WAS A FEASIBLE PROJECT. THIS COULD HAVE LEGS. SHORTLY AFTER APPLIED FAR GRANT WHICH WE WERE AWARDED JUNE OF THIS YEAR. IT MOVED QUICKLY. THIS IS THE SCOPE. RIGHT NOW THE VESSEL, REALLY INTERESTING VESSEL. SHALLOW DRAFT VESSEL WITH FOUR PROPELLERS AND RUTTERS AND TWO RUTTERS ARE ON A COMMON SHAFT. RIGHT NOW IT'S GOT FOUR, 500-HORSEPOWER OVERALL. THE PROPELLERS ARE IN HALF TUNNEL. VERY INTERESTING CONFIGURATION. IT'S GOT REDUCTION GEARS ON EACH. TWO OF THE FOUR REDUCTION GEARS RUN PTO'S FOR FIRE PUMPS AND -- IT'S A VERY INTERESTING SYSTEM. ALL ON HYDRAULIC. THEY RUN PTO'S FOR THE RAMPS. IT'S GOT SIX DIFFERENT PROPELLERS. PNEUMATIC COMPULSION CONTROL. PRETTY OLD SCHOOL. THAT WILL BE REPLACED. WE'LL LEAVE THE VESSEL -- THE PLAN IS TO LEAVE THE VESSEL STRUCTURE. WE'LL REPLACE THE ENGINES WITH ELECTRIC MOTORS. ROUGHING 100-KILOWATT ELECTRIC MOTORS. WE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE PRODUCTION HERE AS WE GET INTO THE DESIGN. THERE'S POSSIBILITY DOING DIRECT DRIVE. IT'S GOING TO BE A DC BUS OR SPLIT BUS. TWO BATTERY BANKS. SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 120 AND 190-KILOWATT HOURS TOTAL. WE HAVE PTO'S PROVIDING HYDRAULICS WE HAVE TO HAVE COMPLETELY DEDICATED NEW HYDRAULIC POWER UNITS. THOSE WILL BE RUNNING OFF BATTERIES AS WELL. ONE EACH FOR STEERING AND ANOTHER ONE FOR ANOTHER REASON. HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT SIZING A BATTERY NAME LIKE THIS? WHAT ARE SOME OF THE ASSUMPTIONS. YOU GOT TO START BY LOOKING AT THE ENERGY REQUIREMENTS WHICH IS THE FIRST THING THAT WE DID . ALMOST BY OBSERVATION, YOU CAN TELL THAT IT IS. WE NEEDED TO FIGURE OUT HOW BIG THEY NEED TO BE. ANOTHER IS OPTIMIZING ENERGY CONSUMPTION. IN ORDER TO USE THE SIZE AND COST OF THE BATTERIES. WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DID PUT UNDUE STRAIN ON CREW OPERATION . THAT'S A BIG CONCERN. AS WE SAW EARLIER -- [CAN'T HEAR]. OBVIOUSLY SIZE AND COST OF BATTERY IS ISSUE. SHORT POWER INFRASTRUCTURE . THIS WAS THE LOAD PROFILE, BASIC LOAD PROFILE. WE SPENT ABOUT FIVE MINUTES TOTAL. THE VESSELS CRUISES IN ABOUT FIVE TO EIGHT KNOTS PROBABLY DEPENDING ON CURRENTS. YOU HAVE BETWEEN 25, 30 MINUTES LOADING AND UNLOADING. THAT MAY VARY FROM TIME TO TIME. GENERALLY YOU HAVE HALF AN HOUR WHEN CARS ARE COMING ON AND COMING OFF. ONE WAY TRIPS ABOUT 45 MINUTE. KIND OF ON THE RIGHT, THE ENERGY FREEZE OPERATION IS NOT MASSIVE. ONE THING THAT WE NOTICED RIGHT AWAY WAS THAT UNLOADING AND LOADING OPERATION WHERE THEY'RE PUSHING -- WHICH MAKES PERFECT SENSE IN TERMS OF THE WAY THEY DO THINGS NOW. ENGINEERS AREN'T GOING TO SHUT IT DOWN. YOU NEED TO HAVE THAT. NOT ONLY DO THEY WANT TO BE PUSHING T THEY'LL KEEP THE ENGINES GOING. THAT'S 60% OF YOUR FUEL. JUST PUSHING -- ESPECIALLY WHEN IT ALL SPIRALS BACK. ON THE CAMDEN SIDE, THE FACILITIES MORE OR LESS EXIST. THEY CAN TIE UP TODAY. ON THE OTHER SIDE ON GEES BEND SIDE, THAT'S MORE OF A CHALLENGE. WE MAY END UP PUTTING IN ADDITIONAL PILING SO IT TIE UP EASIER. SOME OF THE TRADEOFFS I'LL DISCUSS IS PUSHING THE BEACH. YOU CHARGE ON ONE SAID OR CHARGE ON BOTH SIDES. WHAT DOES THAT DO TO YOUR BATTERY SIDE AND POWER REQUIREMENTS. WHEN YOU'RE DOING IT ALL BATTERY TYPE OPERATION, YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT MARGINS. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE TYPICALLY THINK ABOUT IN THIS WAY. WHAT'S A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF ENERGY MARGIN ON SORT OF PER RUN OR PER MONTH TYPE OF BASIS. ROUGHLY AT THIS POINT, I THINK THAT'S STILL GOING TO BE UP FOR DEBATE AS GET INTO MORE SERIOUS -- ROUGHLY WE'RE LOOKING AT SOMETHING LIKE 50% ENERGY MARGINS PER ONE WAY TRIP. THESE ARE VERY ROUGH NUMBERS IN TERMS OF BATTERY SIZING. ABOUT 120 TO 290-KILOWATT. IF YOU'RE CHARGING EACH DIRECTION AND ONE WAY. PLUG IN, CHARGE, COME BACK THE OTHER WAY AND PLUG IN OR ROUND TRIP. GO THERE AND BACK. THEN THE OTHER POINT ON THE BATTERY MARGIN IS WE LOOKED AT THE NUMBERS BEFORE. [LOW AUDIO] [CAN'T HEAR] THE ADVANTAGES OF CHARGING EACH WAY IS WHAT THE TEAM IS RECOMMENDING. IT REDUCES YOUR CAPITAL EXPENDITURE IN TERMS OF REDUCING YOUR BATTERY SIZE BUT ALSO -- WE'LL HAVE TO UPGRADE THE SHORT POWER ON BOTH ENDS. IF YOU CHARGING EVERY DIRECTION, YOUR KILOWATTS OR LOWER. YOUR CAPITAL EXPENDITURE IS LOWER. 

>> GOING TO END UP BEING DOUBLE THAT. THAT WAS VERY SURPRISING WHEN WE STARTED GETTING INTO THE NITTY-GRITTY. WAS PART OF THIS OPTIMIZATION PROCESS. I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO THAT HERE TOO MUCH. I WANTED TO MENTION, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE ALL NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POWER COSTS FOR ELECTRIC VESSELS. WE REALLY CAN'T USE NUMBERS LIKE DOLLARS PER KILOWATT HOUR TOO CASUALLY IN TERMS OF AVERAGE RATE. THE RELATE REALLY NOTHING CLOSE TO THE AVERAGES. CHARGING EVERY ROUND TRIP -- DISADVANTAGES CHARGING EVERY ONE WAY TRIP, THERE'S MORE INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT. EVERY ONE WAY -- EVERY ROUND TRIP THE ADVANTAGES IS LESS INFRASTRUCTURE. IT'S GOING TO BE A HIGHER CAP X. THIS IS FOR THE POSITIVE SLOPE THAT'S ENERGY OUT. THE NEGATIVE SLOPE IS ENERGY IN. THIS IS OUR LOW PRO FILE ON A ROUND TRIP BASIS. YOU COME OUT THE DOCK, TIME ACROSS THE HORIZONTAL ACCESS AND ENERGY ACROSS THE VERTICAL AXIS. YOU COME OUT THE DOCK AND YOU'RE IF MANEUVERING PHASE. YOU GO TO TRANSIT AND YOU MANEUVER INTO THE DOCK. THEN YOU'RE SITTING ROUGHLY 25 MINUTES. RIGHT NOW, VESSEL IS PUSHING. WHOLE TIME THE VESSEL IS PUSHING THE DOCK, YOU GOT YOUR AUXILIARY LOADS. YOUR LIGHTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE. THE WHOLE TIME VESSEL PUSHING THE DOCK, YOU'RE CONSUMING ENERGY, YOU CONSUME ENERGY, TRANSIT, MANEUVERING. IN THIS CASE, I'M ASSUMING THIS WILL BE A CHARGE EVERY ROUND TRIP. NOW YOU ARE TIED UP AND YOU'RE CHARGING. YOU'RE GOING FROM ROUGHLY 80-KILOWATT HOURS FOR THAT ROUND TRIP OPERATION IN 25 MINUTES DOWN TO ZERO. THAT AMOUNTS TO ABOUT -- ALL THE WHILE YOU STILL NEED TO PROVIDE THOSE AUXILIARY LOADS. THAT'S ALMOST 300-KILOWATT HOUR SHORE POWER CONNECTION. WHICH IS NOT SMALL. AS I WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, THE HIGHER THAT IS, THE MORE THOSE DEMAND RATES ARE GOING TO KILL YOU. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ECONOMIC ADVANTAGES ON THE OUTSIDE, YOU MAY SAY, YOU PENCIL UP ALL THE ENERGY OVER THE YEARS. THAT LOOKS GREAT. YOU START TALKING UTILITIES, IT'S THREE OR FOUR TIMES THAT. THE ADVANTAGES OVER DIESEL BECOMES LESS APPARENT. WE WANT TO GET THAT SPIKE DOWN. THIS IS A SLIGHTLY MORE FAVORABLE. THIS WILL BE CHARGING EVERY ROUND TRIP INSTEAD WE'LL TIE UP ON EACH END. YOU COME OUT AND MANEUVER. NOW THAT SLOPE, THAT'S JUST UTILITIES. THERE'S NO PROPULSION LOAD THERE. YOU COME OUT, YOU COME UP TO THE DOCK. NOW WE'RE DOWN TO 68-KILOWATT HOURS. BUT STILL, 200 KILOWATTS CHARGE STILL, 200 KILOWATTS CHARGE RATE. THAT'S PRETTY HIGH. NOW THIS IS EVERY ONE WAY. IT'S ALL THE SAME UP UNTIL YOU GET TO THE DOCK. NOW YOU TIE UP. NOW YOU'RE ONLY 81 KILOWATTS CHARGE RATE. NOW THIS IS LOOKING QUITE A BIT BETTER. YOUR ONE WAY LOAD IS 31-KILOWATT HOURS. IF YOU LOOK WHERE WE STARTED AND PUSHING, 85, THIS IS NOW, IT'S ALMOST A THIRD. THAT'S ONE WAY. IT'S ALMOST A THIRD IN TERMS OF YOUR CHARGING ENERGY. THIS IS KIND OF A COMPARISON OF THE THREE. I THINK THIS IS A REALLY INTERESTING SLIDE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW THIS OPTIMIZATION PROCESS CAN LEAD TO SMALLER BATTERY SIZE, MORE FAVORABLE UTILITY RATES AND MORE RELIABLE OPERATION. THESE ARE ALL THE THINGS THAT WE HAD TO CONSIDER. JUST SOME OF THE REGULATORY ISSUES. WE ENGAGED COAST GUARD EARLY IN THIS PROCESS AND WE HAD OUR CONCERNS ABOUT WHETHER WE WOULD BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THE NEEDS OF SUB CHAPTER T. THESE ARE THINGS THEY'RE LOOKING AT. WE NEED TO CAREFULLY CONSIDER THE LOCATION OF THE BATTERY RELATIVE TO PASSENGERS, FUEL COMBUSTIBLE. THE BATTERIES THEMSELVES NEED TO BE MINIMUM A64 BOUNDARY. NEED TO HAVE EMERGENCY SHUT DOWN SWITCH AND ON THE BRIDGE TO DISCONNECT THE BATTERIES. FOR PREVENTION, LIKE BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, CONTINUOUSLY OF THE BATTERIES. THINGS LIKE ISOLATING THE CELL, ETCETERA. IT NEEDS TO BE SUITABLE FOR THE BATTERY CHEMISTRY TYPE. THAT'S SOMETHING WE'LL HAVE TO ADDRESS. POWER REDUNDANCY WAS AN ISSUE. WE DONE HAVE DIESEL. THESE FROM THE BATTERIES THEMSELVES. I WAS WORRIED ABOUT IT. I THINK THAT FROM TECHNICAL ASPECT, THIS IS NO PROBLEM. THERE'S PLENTY OF ENERGY. OUR VITAL SOURCES ARE NOT BIG ENERGY CONSUMERS. AS LONG AS THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE BUS IS DEFINED OR DESIGNED WITH ENOUGH REDUNDANCY, THIS IS -- 

>> THIS IS A KEY POINT THOUGH IN THAT, THEY'RE SAYING WE WILL NOT BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A EMERGENCY GENERATOR. WHICH IS SOMETHING WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT. 

>> BASED ON THIS PARTICULAR OPERATION, IF YOU ZOOM OUT IN TERMS OF THE LENGTH OF OPERATION, THE RELATIVE SURROUNDING AREA, NOT HIGHLY POPULATED, IT DOES MAKE SENSE. THE RISKS ARE DIFFERENCE IF YOU WERE IN A HIGHLY POPULATED CITY. BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, CHARGE CONTROLLER AND ALARM BEFORE THE CELL REACHES TEMPERATURE. AND SHUT DOWN WHEN THE BATTERY REACHES TEMPERATURE. TEMPERATURE CONTROL FOR THE MANUFACTURERS RECOMMENDATION. POWER VENTILATION AND VITAL SYSTEMS AUTOMATION. RIGHT OUT THE CFR'S. MEET THE REQUIREMENTS WITH SUCH THINGS AS QFA, DVTP AND PSTP. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MEET THESE. THIS IS OUR BASIC ARRANGEMENT. THE MAX DEPTH BELOW THE MAIN DECK IS ONLY 5 FEET. THE VERY SHALLOW VESSEL . IT'S TEAMLY TEAMLY -- TOTALLY DOABLE. WE'RE REPLACING OUR ENGINES WITH MOTORS. RIGHT NOW, THERE'S A SPACE IN THE MIDDLE WHERE WE INTEND TO PUT THE DRIVES AND THE BATTERIES AND THAT SPACE, THOSE WILL BE STILL ZERO. WE'LL HAVE THE REQUIRED COOLING AND APPLY PRESSURE EQUIPMENT. I THINK I COVERED THIS. CAPEX CAPITAL COST ESTIMATE. LOOKING AT BOTH WHAT WOULD IT COST IF YOU WERE JUST REPOWERING THIS WITH A DIESEL. THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER. WHAT WOULD A CONVENTIONAL REPOWER COST IN THIS CASE. PROBABLY AROUND $700,000. BY THE TIME YOU'RE DONE. WHEREAS THIS CONVERSION IS PROBABLY CLOSER TO $2 MILLION. THERE IS DIFFERENTIAL ON THE ORDER OF MILLION AND TWO. THAT'S WHERE YOU START SAYING, WELL, IF WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN, CAN WE GET OUTSIDE FUNDING TO MAKE THIS GO OVER THE THRESHOLD. WE DID LOOK AT LIFECYCLE COSTS. WE SET UP A FAIRLY HIGH LEVEL MODEL AND LOOKED AT FUEL CONSUMPTION, MAINTENANCE, ROUTINE MAINTENANCE AND OVERHALL HAULS. PLUS A TYPICAL REPOWER. OVER A 30 YEAR CYCLE . WE LOOKED AT ELECTRIC COSTS FOR DIFFERENT CHARGING SCENARIOS BASED ON ACTUAL QUOTES FROM UTILITIES. WE LOOKED AT SOME STANDARD ELECTRICAL MAINTENANCE. WE LOOK AT REPLACING THE BATTERIES EVERY 10 YEARS. WE MAKE SOME ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT BATTERY COSTS DECREASING OVER THAT 10 YEAR PERIOD. WE BUILT THAT INTO OUR MODEL. THEN THE CAPEX. THE GIST OF IT, WE LOOKED AT DIFFERENT DIESEL PRICES. $2, $3, $4 A GALLON. THE STEEP CURVES THERE ARE BASED ON THE DIFFERENT DIESEL PRICES. THIS IS COMPARING CONVENTIONAL TO AN ELECTRIC. THE 14 ONE, THE VERY LOWEST -- MOST SHALLOW CURVE ON THE BO BOTTOM. THIS IS TIME ON THE HORIZONTAL AND CAPITAL COST ON THE VERTICAL. THIS IS WITH A MILLION DOLLARS GRANT. WHAT WE'VE DEEN WITH A GRANT, WE PUSHED DOWN THE COST OF THE REPOWER TOWARDS BASICALLY ON EVEN KEEL WITH A DIESEL. THE OPERATIONAL SAVINGS ARE IN HOW SHALLOW THAT LINE IS. YOU CAN SEE HERE THAT IF YOU CAN GET THAT CAPITAL COSTS ADJUSTED, THIS IS BY FOR A A LESS EXPENSIVE VESSEL TO OPERATE. 

>> THANKS SEAN. INTERESTING PART OF THAT, FUEL PRICES LOWER, IT MAKES THE RECOVERY COSTS LONGER FOR US. LOW FUEL PRICES ARE A DISINCENTIVE. IT GOES BACK TO DOING THE RIGHT THING. WE SAW THE OPPORTUNITY. THE OTHER THING AS AN OBSERVATION, WE BELIEVE FUEL PRICES HAVE BOTTOMED OUT THEY WON'T CLIMB AT THE SAME RATE THAT THEY DROP. WE THINK WE'LL SEE SUBSEQUENT INCREASES. NEXT WE'LL GO TO KIERAN. SPECIAL PROJECTS MANAGER. KIND OF ORIGINAL ENERGY BEHIND OUR LOOKING INTO HYBRID PROJECTS. 

>> HE ENTERED MARITIME PROFESSION AFTER GRADUATING FROM THE MARITIME ACADEMY. HE WORKED IN THE POWER ELECTRONICS INDUSTRY FOCUSING ON APPLYING ADVANCE TECHNOLOGIES TO INSTALL COMPULSION. AFTER JOINING HORNBLOWER HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR DEVELOPING FOUR HYBRID PASSENGER FERRIES. CURRENTLY, HE'S A PROGRAM MANAGER FOR HORNBLOWER CRUISE AND EVENTS AS WELL AS ASSISTANT PROFESSOR FOR ENGINEERING TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT AT THE CALIFORNIA MARITIME ACADEMY. [APPLAUSE] 

>> WE'RE GOING TO SKIP AHEAD SLIDES SINCE WE COVERED THAT ALL READY. WHY HYBRID? ONCE AGAIN, WE DID THE ANALYSIS ON THIS. I'LL SPARE YOU THE GRAPHS AND THE CHARTS AND SPREADSHEET. LOOKING AT DIFFERENT WAYS TO OPTIMIZE THE ROUTE. WE'RE LOOKING ABOUT A MILE AND A HALF ROUTE THAT THE VESSELS DO. THERE ARE THREE VESSELS OPERATING THAT RUN. TWO WHICH ARE 700 PASSENGERS. ONE WHICH IS 750 PASSENGER. IT DOES MODIFIED SEASONAL RUN. ESSENTIALLY, THESE VESSELS DON'T NEED TO DO FULL SPEED. THEY WERE DESIGNED LIKE ALL VESSELS ARE, WE DON'T NEED THAT POWER 90% OF THE TIME. IF THERE'S A SHIP IN THE WAY THAT'S INTERESTING -- ENTERING THE BAY, WE HAVE TO SPEED UP. THEN WE HAVE TO SPEED UP. OTHER THAN THAT FROM THAT, WE DON'T NEED FULL POWER. THEN ALSO, WE HAVE A SHORT TRIP AND EQUAL AMOUNT OF TIME THAT WE SPEND BOARDING. GENERALLY THE BOATS ARE CARRYING BETWEEN 300 AND 400 PEOPLE. WE HAVE TO GET 400 OFF AND 400 PEOPLE BACK ON. AT THAT TIME, THEY'RE TIED TO THE DOCK. BUT WE ARE IN A BAY AREA WITH A SURGE. JUST LIKE WITH GEES BEND, YOU'RE PUTTING THE BOAT IN GEAR AND YOU'RE PUSHING AGAINST THE DOCK. WE'RE PUSHING AGAINST THE SPRING LINE JUST TO STABILIZE THE BOAT. IT'S WASTED ENERGY AT THE DOCK. IT'S ENERGY NOT BEING USED TO MOVE PASSENGERS. ALSO THESE VESSELS HAVE A LOW HOUSE POWER REQUIREMENT. IT'S PROBABLY MORE THAN GEES BEND. WE'RE TALKING SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 30 AND 40 KILOWATTS OF BASE LOAD JUST TO KEEP THE VESSELS OPERATING. IN THE CASE OF THESE VESSELS, WE DID ONE MODIFICATION. WE ADDED SOLAR PANELS. WE WERE ABLE TO FIT ABOUT 42-KILOWATT WORTH OF SOLAR ON THE VESSEL. SO WE CAN MEET OUR BASE LOAD WITH SOLAR POWER ALONE. HERE'S THE ROUTE. ONE WAY STAMP, ###-##15 NAUTICAL MILES, 10 -- 1.5 NAUTICAL MILES. THESE VESSELS OPERATE, THEY START ONE START AT 6:00 AND DURING SEASON, THE LAST RUN AT NIGHT IS 9:00 P.M. THEY ARE RUNNING FOR A PROLONGED AMOUNT OF TIME. WE COULDN'T START WITH THOSE BIG BOATS. OUR FIRST BOAT WAS IN 2008. I CALL THIS ON HYBRID 1.0. EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE COMPANY CALLED IT JUNIOR BECAUSE IT'S THE SMALL ONE. JUNIOR IS 65 PASSENGER SUBCHAPTER T VESSEL WHICH IS HUNDRED 1 TONS LESS THAN 149 PASSENGERS. IT'S MUCH EASIER ANIMAL TO DEAL WITH REGULATION WISE. ALSO SIZE AND POWER REQUIREMENT WISE. WHEN WE STARTED OUT ON THIS PROJECT, WE DIDN'T GET A LOT OF SUPPORT FROM INDUSTRY. I'M EXCITED TO HEAR EVERYBODY HERE BEING PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS. IN 2008, NOBODY WAS PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS UNTIL THE SUMMER OF 2008, WHEN FUEL PRICES HIT $5 A GALLON. THEN PEOPLE BECAME INTERESTED IN IT. WHEN WE'RE IN THE PLANNING STAGE, WE GOT LAUGHED OUT OF MEETINGS WITH SUPPLIERS. THEY THOUGHT IT WAS THE STUPIDEST THING THEY EVERY OH -- THEY EVER HEARD OF. THIS BOAT HAS 400-HORSEPOWER COMPULSION, MOTORS. WE ACTUALLY DONE HAVE GEARBOXES IN THIS APPLICATION. IT'S DIRECT DRIVE. WE HAVE TWO 350-HORSEPOWER GENERATORS. THIS BOAT IS BASED ON 460-VOLT AC SWITCHBOARD WHEN IT'S IN ITS NORMAL ELECTRIC MODE. WHEN WE GO INTO BATTERY ONLY MODE, WE HAVE TWO BATTERY BANKS ON THIS VESSEL THAT ARE 30 BATTERIES IN SERIES TIMES TWO. WE ACTUALLY WENT WITH AGM. WE WENT WITH A TRADITIONAL BATTERY AT THE TIME. WE MADE KIND OF A TOSS UP WITH WEIGHT. THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE ENDED UP WITH THE SIZE OF THE BATTERY BANK THIS THAT BOAT. THERE WAS A LOT OF REGULATORY CONCERN ABOUT THIS AND AGM MADE EVERYBODY FEEL LOT MORE COMFORTABLE THAN TRYING TO SUGGEST LITHIUM BASED BATTERY AT THE TIME. WE RUN THE BATTERIES AT 380-VOLT D.C. LEVEL. I DID SEE ON THE VALUE DRIVERS OVER THERE, CUSTOMER EXPERIENCES IS ONE OF THOSE. PART OF WHAT WE DO CARRY PEOPLE TO NATIONAL PARK IS WE LIKE TO EDUCATE. ACTUALLY ON THE VESSELS, WE HAVE THESE CARTOONS. IT'S KIND OF NICE WAY TO SHOW WHAT'S GOING ON ON THESE VESSELS. WE HAVE BATTERIES, WE HAVE DIESEL AND SHORT POWER, SOLAR, ETCETERA. ALL OF THOSE TIE TOGETHER. THIS IS A NICE THING THAT WE HAVE OUT FOR THE PASSENGERS TO SEE. IN ADDITION, WE HAVE MIMIC PANELS THROUGHOUT THE VESSEL THAT WILL SHOW THE POWER FLOW OF THE BOAT. IF YOU DRIVEN A PRIUS AND YOU HAVE THE LIGHTS THAT MOVE WHEN YOU'RE ON BATTERY MODE, WE HAVE THAT ON THE VESSEL FOR THE PASSENGERS TO SEE. VERY SIMPLE SET UP. THE BATTERY MANAGEMENT WAS SIMPLE IN THIS VESSEL. ESSENTIALLY WE'RE BALANCING WHEN WE'RE CHARGING. IT'S WASTED ENERGY. IN ORDER TO BALANCE, WE HAVE RESISTER BANKS AND WE JUST GET THE HIGHEST OF THE BATTERIES JUST TO A RESISTER. THIS IS TIED INTO THE AUTOMATION SYSTEM. IF BATTERY GOES OUT OF SPECIFICATION, IT WILL STOP THE CHARGING PROCEDURE AND ALARM IN THE WHEEL HOUSE. AS FAR AS INTEGRATED COMPULSION SYSTEM, WE WENT SIMPLE ON THIS ONE. THE BATTERIES THEMSELVES CONNECT DIRECTLY TO THE DC LINK ON THE DFD'S. IT'S NOT INTEGRATED SYSTEM IT'S EITHER OR. YOU CAN EITHER RUN ON THE AC SYSTEM OR RUN ON THE BATTERY SYSTEM. IT WAS THE WAY THAT WE GET IT DONE WITH THE REGULATORY THINGS IN PLAY AT THE TIME. OUR BATTERY CHARGING IN THIS ONE. WE ACTUALLY ENDED UP USING COMMERCIAL HIGH VOLTAGE POWER SUPPLY. THAT GAVE US FINE CONTROL. THE BATTERY MANAGEMENT WAS FAIRLY RUDIMENTARY ON THIS ONE. THE ONE THING WITH RUNNING AT 380-VOLT DC BUS, WE DIDN'T HAVE FULL PROPULSIVE POWER. WE WERE SHORT ONLY VOLTAGE. IN THIS, WE DON'T HAVE FULL PROPULSION POWER WHEN WE'RE IN THE BATTERY MODE. WE ARE LIMITED BY THE VOLTAGE AVAILABLE. WE ALSO HAVE TO HAVE A SEPARATE BATTERY SYSTEM FOR THE HOUSE POWER ON THAT VESSEL. THAT VESSEL HOWEVER, ONLY NEEDS ABOUT 6 KILOWATTS OF BASE LOAD. THAT WAS A LOT MORE MANAGEABLE. THEN WE GO INTO 2.0. 2.0, THERE'S TWO 2.0'S. INITIALLY THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE FIRST 2.0. THIS IS A VESSEL THAT'S IN NEW YORK THAT IS DOING TOUR AND CRUISE. WE'RE BUILDING ANOTHER ONE, ALCATRAZ, DUE TO SOME ISSUES IN PRODUCTION, THIS ONE ACTUALLY ENDED UP BEING COMPLETED FIRST. THEN THE NEW YORK VESSEL COMPLETELY SECOND. THEY ARE TWINS UNDERNEATH THE HOOD. IN THESE, 600 PASSENGER, 170-FOOT FOR NEW YORK, 700 PASSENGER, 140-FOOT FOR SAN FRANCISCO. TWO 700-HORSEPOWER INDUCTION MOTORS. IN THIS CASE, WE DID TWO 700-HORSEPOWER INDUCTION GENERATOR. WHICH WAS INTERESTING WAY FOR POWER GENERATION ON THE BOAT. WHICH CAUSED A LOT OF ISSUES BECAUSE IT'S NOT TYPICAL. IT ALLOWS US TO DO VARIABLE SPEED GENERATOR. WE DECOUPLED ENGINE SPEED FROM OUR POWER GENERATION. WE DON'T HAVE TO BE FIX FREQUENCY. WE DON'T NEED THE ENGINES 1800RPM ALL THE TIME. WE CAN SPEED UP THE PROCESS OF PARALLELLING IN THAT CASE. WE HAVE FOUR BATTERY BANKS ON THESE BOATS. EACH BATTERY BANK IS 48 BATTERIES IN SERIES. WE'RE OVER 600 VOLTS FOR THE BATTERY BANK. THERE ARE BOOST CONVERTERS ON THOSE BATTERY BANKS TO BOOST TO OUR BUSTIBLE. WHICH IS 730 VOLTS. WE DON'T MODULATE THE BUS VOLTAGE TO DO BATTERY CHARGING. WE USE BOOST CONVERTERS AND HAVE THOSE ACT AS BATTERY CHARGERS. WE CHARGERS. WE DON'T HAVE A SEPARATE BATTERY CHARGER AND BOOST CONVERTER. IF YOU LOOK IN A THE BACKGROUND, WHICH IS ACTUALLY PROPULSION MOTOR. THAT'S THE EQUIPMENT THAT ACTUALLY MAKES THE MAGIC HAPPEN ON THIS BOAT. YOU CAN SEE ON THE CLIPPER, THE BLACK LINES UP TOP ARE ALL SOLAR PANELS. THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE 40-KILOWATT AT SOLAR. FOLLOWING UP IN 2013, I CALL THIS ONE 2.1. WE TOOK LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE FIRST COUPLE OF BOATS AND APPLIED IT TO THIS BOAT WHICH IS ONCE AGAIN VERY SIMILAR POWERTRAIN. THERE'S NOT TOO MUCH DEVIATION. JUST BUILD, EASE OF BUILDING. IT BECAME A MUCH EASIER BUILD. BUT SAME POWERTRAIN CONCEPT. 615 BANK VOLTAGE, 48AGM. BATTERY MANAGEMENT ON THIS VESSEL WAS A LOT MORE COMPLICATED. LOT MORE EXACTING. THIS IS VERY INTEGRATED IN THE PROPULSION SYSTEM. THERE'S MIMIC PANELS IN THE WHEEL HOUSE SO THAT THE OPERATOR OF THE VESSEL KNOW THE STATUS OF EVERY BATTERY THAT'S IN THAT BATTERY ROOM. THERE ARE SHUT DOWNS ALL OVER THE PLACE ON THIS THING. THERE ARE BREAKERS INSIDE THE BATTERY ROOM OUTSIDE THE BATTERY ROOM. FUSES. WE WENT SO FAR AS TO -- WE HAD TO CONNECT BATTERIES. I DIDN'T WANT TO PUT MY HANDS ON BATTERY THAT'S AT 600 VOLTS TO PUT THE FINAL CONNECTION IN. WE HAVE CONTACTORS IN BETWEEN EACH GROUP. ANY TIME ANYBODY IS IN THAT SPACE, THERE'S NO MORE THAN 36 VOLTS PRESENT. THAT IS INTERLOCKED WITH DOORS THAT ENTER THAT COMPARTMENT. YOU ACTUALLY, PHYSICALLY CANNOT GET IN THAT COMPARTMENT WITHOUT SHUTTING THE SYSTEM DOWN. WITH THE BATTERY INTEGRATION ON THIS ONE, IT ALLOWED US TO HAVE SEAMLESS TRANSFER OF POWER. THIS WAS FULLY INTEGRATED WITH THE DIESEL ENGINES. WE COULD RUN IN A MODE WHERE BATTERY ONLY. WE CAN RUN IN MODE WHERE WE'RE ONE ENGINE SEQUENCED. ONE ENGINE WOULD START IF WE HAD MORE DEMAND AND THE SECOND ENGINE WOULD START. WE CAN CAN RUN IN MODE WHERE EVERYTHING IS TURNED ON, GUNS ABLAZING AND I HAVE ALL THE POWER. I END UP WITH TWICE THE POWER AVAILABLE THAT YOU CAN PULL IN WITH MY PROPULSION . EACH BATTERY BANK IS CAPABLE OF PROVIDING UP TO 500-AMPS OF POWER TIMES FOUR. WE GOT QUITE A BIT OF POWER ON TAP. THAT IS ONE OF THE GOALS WE HAD FULL PROPULSION POWER AVAILABLE ON BATTERIES. THE STAKES ARE TOO HIGH ON THIS VESSEL WITH THE AMOUNT OF PASSENGERS ON IT. WE DIDN'T EVER WANT TO PUT THE CAPTAIN IN A SITUATION WHERE WE HAD TO DECIDE WELL, ALL I GOING TO BE ECONOMICAL BUT DON'T HAVE POWER. WE DIDN'T WANT THE OPERATOR TO HAVE TO MAKE THAT CHOICE. WE MADE EVERYTHING AVAILABLE ALL THE TIME. FROM THE OPERATOR'S PERSPECTIVE, WHEN HE PUSHES THE THROTTLES DOWN, THE BOAT BEHAVES THE SAME WHETHER IT'S ON ONE ENGINE, TWO ENGINE OR ALL BATTERIES. WE'VE DONE TESTING WHERE WE'VE STOPPED ENGINE, RUNNING GENERATOR WHILE ' AROUND WAY. CAPTAIN DIDN'T NOTICE UNTIL THE ALARM WENT OFF. THE BOAT DID NOT SLOW DOWN. AS FAR AS CHARGING IS CONCERNED, THESE BOAT HAVE 200-AMPS, THREE PHASE SERVICE AVAILABLE FOR CHARGING. WHICH IS MARGINAL. WE'RE NOT ABLE TO DO FAST CHARGING. WE HAVE TWO VESSELS SITTING SIDE BY SIDE. WE CAN'T HANDLE THAT LOAD WHERE'RE AT IN SAN FRANCISCO. WE DO RECTIFY THAT. WE PUT IT ON TO OUR DC BUS AND WE CHARGE THE BATTERY FROM OUR DC BUS. WE DID HAVE A LOT OF REGULATORY ISSUES WHEN WE WERE PUSHING THIS THROUGH. WE DIDN'T HAVE MUCH GUIDANCE IN THIS. REALLY ALL WE HAD WAS THE CFR'S AND SADLY, NVI-89. WE ENDED UP WITH A VERY BAD SITUATION WITH THE COAST GUARD UNFORTUNATELY. TRYING TO NEGOTIATE WHAT WAS ACCEPTABLE AND WHAT WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE. IT ACTUALLY TOOK US ABOUT A YEAR TO GET THE BOAT AS IT WAS DESIGNED THROUGH THE COAST GUARD FOR APPROVALS. I'LL WRAP IT UP AT THIS POINT. WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO LOOK AT HYBRIDIZING VESSEL AS IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR FERRY ROUTE. WE DO OPERATE A LOT OF FERRIES NOW. AS THEY COME UP FOR REPOWERS, WE ARE GOING TO BE TO DO EVALUATION TO SEE IF IT'S APPROPRIATE TO DO THIS. IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE FOR ALL ROUTES. WE WOULD LOVE TO INTEGRATE NEW LITHIUM TECHNOLOGIES AND LIGHTER WEIGHT TECHNOLOGIES INTO THESE BOATS IF THEY MAKE SENSE. IN THE CASE OF THE NEW YORK HYBRID, IT ACTUALLY DIDN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THAT VESSEL AT ALL. BECAUSE WHEN WE REBUILT THE VESSEL, WE HAD MOVED STRUCTURE AROUND AND WE NEEDED 40,000 POUNDS OF BALLAST. IT MADE NO SENSE FOR US TO SPEND THE AMOUNT OF COST ON BATTERIES FOR LIGHT WEIGHT BATTERIES TO PUT IT IN. THE BUSINESS SENSE ACTUALLY WAS FOR AGM BECAUSE WE NEEDED THE WEIGHT. THE OTHER THINGS THAT HYBRID SYSTEM LIKE THIS ALLOWS US TO DO IS MY PERSONAL PET PROJECT, I KNOW THIS IS A DIFFERENT GROUP, I WOULD LOVE TO PUT HYDROGEN ON ONE OF THESE BOATS AND WE'RE LOOKING INTO THAT. IF IT IT'S, DO IF IT'S FEASIBLE. I THINK THAT'S IT FOR ME. 

>> FANTASTIC. [APPLAUSE] 

>> I THINK WE'RE COMING UP AGAINST TIME. YOU CAN INTRODUCE JULIAN AND DO A QUICK WRAP ON IT. 

>> JULIAN ROSE IS A SPECIAL PROJECTS MANAGER FOR HORNBLOWER. HE BEGAN MARITIME AS U.S. NAVY. FOLLOWING HIS NAVY SERVICE. HE GRADUATED FROM THE CALIFORNIA MARITIME ACADEMY AND SAILED WORLDWIDE FOR FIVE YEARS. HE ALSO WORKED AS MARINE CONSULTANT WHERE HE PERFORMED VESSEL SAFETY, STABILITY SURVEYS AND INVESTIGATED MARITIME INSURANCE CLAIMS. IN HIS CURRENT ROLE, HE WAS INVOLVED IN DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF DEVELOPMENT AND OPERATIONAL SUPPORT. 

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH KEVIN. WE TAKEN ABOUT ALL THE TIME WE HAD THERE. GOOD NEWS FOR ME, THE PANEL IS COVERED EVERYTHING QUITE THOROUGHLY. I DON'T HAVE MUCH TO ADD. I BRIEFLY WANT TO ADDRESS ONE THING THAT CAME UP EARLIER. THAT WAS HUMAN RESOURCES SYSTEMS APPROACHES AND SAFETY. HOW WE'RE HANDLING THAT WITHIN THE HORNBLOWER FAMILY COMPANY. WE TAKING REACTIVE APPROACH IN THE MARITIME COMMUNITY. MOVING IT IN THE DESIGN PHASE. LOOKING AT HOW WE CAN BUILD AND DESIGN NEW PROJECTS RESPONSIBLY IN WAYS THAT WILL SUPPORT THE SAFETY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM AND TACKLE LOT OF THE ISSUES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT TODAY. OTHER THAN THAT, WE'VE GOT PLATFORM MOVING FORWARD TO CAPITALIZE ON WHATEVER COMES DOWN THE PIPE. I'M SURE THE GUY OR GAL WHO INVENTED THE BAGHDAD BATTERY PROBABLY THOUGHT IT WAS PRETTY COOL. LOW AND BEHOLD, I GOT THINGS LIKE THAT -- DRIVING LITHIUM BATTERIES. WHO KNOWS WHAT'S NEXT. WE'RE READY FOR IT. 

>> FANTASTIC. THANK YOU EVERYBODY. WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR ATTENTION. IT'S BEEN A FANTASTIC WORKSHOP. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THE WHOLE TEAM HERE. WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE REST OF IT. THANK YOU. 

>> WE'LL HAVE A QUESTION AND ANSWER PERIOD. 

>> IF THE INTEREST OF FURTHER REDUCING EMISSIONS HAVE YOU GIVEN ANY THOUGHT TORY PLACING THE DIESEL FUEL ENGINES ANY GENERATOR ENGINES WITH LNG FUEL ENGINES OR DUAL FUEL, ANYTHING LIKE THAT? 

>> WE HAVE TO A CERTAIN DEGREE. WHAT THE PRIMARY ENGINES, THE ISSUE REALLY HAS BEEN SUPPLY SIDE. ANYONE WHO'S 

>> IN THE INTEREST OF FURTHER REDUCING EMISSIONS IN THE SENSITIVE AREAS, HAVE YOU GIVEN ANY THOUGHT TO REPLACING THE DIESEL FUEL ENGINES WITH LNG FUEL ENGINES? LOW SULFUR FUELS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? 

>> WE HAVE, TO A CERTAIN DEGREE. THE ISSUE REALLY HAS BEEN SUPPLIED. ANYONE IN THE U.S. HAS THE SAME ISSUE. AS THE FUEL PRICES PLUNGE, THE COST FACTOR THAT WAS REDUCED. IT IS SOMETHING WE ARE LOOKING AT WOULD LIKELY BE A CROSSOVER HYBRID AND. -- HYBRID. IT WOULD PROBABLY BE ON THE MAIN. 

>> ANYTHING ELSE? 

>> SO ON THAT EXAMPLE, CAN YOU BREAK DOWN ROUGHLY THE CAP X NUMBER OF WHAT SOME OF THOSE MAJOR CHANGES ARE IN TERMS OF THE OVERALL COST? YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED AT HOW LITTLE OF IT IT IS. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE MAJOR CONTRIBUTORS ARE. 

>> THE BATTERY COST -- I TOUCHED ON THIS EARLIER. BATTERIES FOR THIS ARE NOT A DRIVER, I WOULD SAY. YOU WANT TO REDUCE THE COST. IF THIS WAS A HALF AN HOUR RUN. EVERYTHING SCALES AS WELL. WE SAW THE MILLION-DOLLAR DIFFERENTIAL. IT IS NOT A BATTERY VERSUS DIESEL ISSUE. IT IS ELECTRIC VERSUS DIESEL ISSUE. WHEN YOU GO FROM WHAT IS TRADITIONALLY THE REALM OF A DIESEL DRIVEN -- TO AN ALL ELECTRIC VESSEL. THERE IS A TON OF ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT THAT YOU HAVE TO INVEST IN. SIMPLE RELIABLE SOLUTIONS. IN TERMS OF APPLICATIONS FOR BATTERY ELECTRIC GOING FORWARD, I THINK THAT IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A DIESEL ELECTRIC, YOU OUGHT TO BE IN BATTERIES. IF YOU ARE AT THE DESIGN PHASE, IT WILL BE VERY STRAIGHT AS TO IF IT IS ELECTRIC. AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT TOTAL COSTS AS WELL. 

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? 

>> WHAT ARE THE PROS AND CONS. 

>> YOU CAN SEE WE MADE A CHANGE BECAUSE THE FIRST BOAT WE DID WAS AN AC VOTE. AS FAR AS CONNECTION TO THE MOTORS. THE D.C. BUS. AND THAT IS WHY THEY WENT THAT DIRECTION. ALL THAT ROTATING MACHINERY IS AC. IT IS PRETTY CUT AND DRY. 

>> I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT INTEGRATING THE HUMAN RESOURCES INTO THE DESIGN. CAN YOU GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE YOU WERE ABLE TO DO THAT? 

>> THAT WAS FACTORING IN, THINGS THAT MIGHT BE UNFORESEEN AT THE TIME. LIKELY MENTIONED, THE DEPTH OF THE VESSEL BELOW DECK. WE'VE HAD SOME TURNOVERS. WHAT TYPES OF THINGS TO PREVENT THE WRENCH FROM FALLING OUT OF THE GUYS POCKET AND RETURNING BATTERIES. WHAT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER IS HOW THEY DRIVE THE VESSELS. SUDDENLY IT IS QUIET AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHICH DIRECTION TO GO. IMPLEMENTING A SIMPLE VISUAL LED , THOSE ARE A COUPLE. 

>> MORE SO THAN A CONTAINER SHIP. THERE ARE NO ENGINEERS ON K BOATS AND TEBOW BOATS. THE AUTOMATION HAS TO BE BUILT FOR A 100 TON CAPTAIN TO BE ABLE TO MAKE ENGINEERING DECISIONS. A LOT WENT INTO MAKING THIS. I DON'T WANT TO SAY DUMBING IT DOWN, BUT THAT PLANT ON THOSE BOATS HAVE FIVE BUTTONS TO MAKE IT GO. 

>> DEPENDING ON THE OPERATION , IT IS CERTIFIED IN THE FERRY DIVISION LINE. IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR DOMESTIC OPERATIONS. THE ACTIVITIES AND SHIP INSTRUCTIONS, THERE IS AN ENGINEERING ELEMENT TO THE SHIP MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. 

>> THANK YOU. 

>> GOING FOR THE BREAK, A 10 MINUTE BREAK. WE'LL COME BACK AT 3:16. 

>> GENTLEMEN, PLEASE TAKE YOUR SEATS. WE'RE GOING TO START AGAIN. 

>> PLEASE TAKE YOUR SEATS. SECOND CALL. OK, SO WE ARE GOING TO START WITH THE STANDARD KICKOFF ACTIVITY. YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. 

>> WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY. WE START TO DIVE INTO THE FIRST OF TWO SETS A STANDARD DISCUSSIONS THIS AFTERNOON AND TOMORROW. THIS IS AN AREA WE'VE ALREADY HIGHLIGHTED TODAY. STANDARDIZATION IN TERMS OF REGULATIONS. IT'S ONE OF THE GAPS PEOPLE IDENTIFIED AND WE SAID WAS OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE A BENEFIT FOR ALL OF YOU. THIS IS A DISCUSSION AMONGST YOUR GROUP, AND I WANT YOU TO LIST THE TOP TWO THINGS YOU THINK IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE CLEAR, COMMON STANDARDS ON AND THINGS IT YOU FEEL SHOULD NOT BE REGULATED AND SHOULD BE OPEN FOR INNOVATION AND CREATIVITY TO ALLOW THE MARKETS TO MOVE FORWARD QUICKLY. THINGS THAT YOU THINK IT'S CLEAR TO HAVE COMMON APPROACHES AND THOSE THAT SHOULD NOT BE REGULATED. THE PANEL APPEARED DO IT AS WELL AS. THEY CAN SHARE THEIR THOUGHTS. [INDISCERNIBLE CONVERSATIONS] 

>> OK, EVERYBODY . LET'S TRY TO WRAP UP OUR DISCUSSIONS AND TODD IS GOING TO BE COMING AROUND WITH A MICROPHONE. WHAT DO YOU GUYS HAVE? IF YOU COULD WRAP UP, THEY ARE GOING TO SHARE. 

>> A HUGE CLIENT. 

>> THINGS THAT SHOULD NOT BE STANDARDIZED OR REGULATED, WE HAD A CHEMISTRY ON THERE. IT IS GOING TO LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF INNOVATION THAT'S GOING TO GO IN THE FUTURE. MORE ONE PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND IT BUT WE DON'T WANT TO REGULATE IT. THE FIRST WOULD BE SAFETY AND CHARACTERIZATION TESTING. THE IDEA IS TO GIVE DESIGNERS AND MANUFACTURERS THE ABILITY TO COMPARE AID TO BE. THE OTHER ONE I TALKED ABOUT -- THIS ISN'T NECESSARILY A STANDARD, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A CROSSOVER WITH OTHER STANDARDS ORGANIZATIONS. WE DON'T NEED TO REINVENT THE WHEEL EVERY TIME. 

>> MITCH, YOU'RE ON THE LEFT-HAND COLUMN. WE VERY MUCH -- LET'S USE THE INDUSTRY STANDARDS THAT ARE OUT THERE. MAYBE A FLIPSIDE TO WHAT HE WAS SAYING ABOUT NOT REGULATING, BUT WE WERE ON THE LINES OF REGULATING ALL BATTERY TYPES THE SAME. DON'T GET TOO INTO THE WEEDS BY REGULATING BY CHEMISTRY. NOT SO MUCH HOW THEY WORK, BUT ALL TRYING TO ACHIEVE THE SAME GOAL. AND WE HAD THE CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE. IF YOU BUY A CHEVY OR A BMW, YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO PLUG INTO THE CHARGER. WE THINK IT SHOULD BE. 

>> TWO OF OURS ARE ALREADY TAKEN. IN TERMS OF SAFETY FOR REGULATING AND BATTERY TECHNOLOGY TO NOT REGULATE, WE TALKED ABOUT PERHAPS MAKING SURE THAT BATTERIES AREN'T USED BEYOND THEIR EFFECTIVE LIFETIME. OUT OF KNOW HOW EASY THAT WOULD BE TO QUANTIFY BECAUSE THEY MAY HAVE DIFFERENT USES. IT IS PROBABLY COMMON SENSE TO SAY THAT ANY KIND OF EVENT MAY OCCUR. IN THE AMBIENT CONDITIONS WERE THE BATTERIES ARE STORED. WE CAP WITH THREE REGULATIONS. THAT'S GOING AGAINST THE NEW WORLD ORDER, I THINK. LET'S TO KEEP IT SHORT, STANDARDIZATION AND SAFETY. I THINK EVERYBODY IS GOING TO AGREE WITH THAT. AND TO NOT REGULATE, THE MARINE WORLD HAS SO MANY APPLICATIONS. IT'S NOT LIKE THE AUTOMOTIVE SYSTEM WITH FOUR WHEELS ON THE GROUND AND MOVING. YOU WILL HAVE DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS WHETHER IT IS BLUE WATER OR BROWN WATER. TRY TO KEEP THE INNOVATION WITHOUT REGULATION. KEEP THE POWER SYSTEMS WHERE THE DESIGNERS CAN COME IN AND PICK OUT THE BEST WAY TO DEAL WITH IT. 

>> YOU CAN REGULATE SAFETY. ANYBODY WANT TO SPEAK TO ANYTHING ELSE? 

>> IS THE SAME THING AT THIS TABLE. 

>> I KNOW GREG. HE'S NEVER SLOW GRABBING THE MICROPHONE. 

>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE MENTIONED. IN THIS HAS TO DO MORE WITH HYBRID. THE BATTERY INTEGRATION , RIGHT NOW, AS FAR AS AN ENGINE BEING REGULATED , WITH BATTERY INTEGRATION, YOU CAN IMPROVE THE OMISSIONS PROFILE. I THINK IN EMISSIONS PROFILES NEED TO BE LESS REGULATED. I DO KNOW IF IT IS MORE REGULATED OR DIFFERENTLY REGULATED THAT I THINK LOOKING AT A MISSIONS AS A WHOLE VERSUS OMISSIONS AS A BUNCH OF PIECES. 

>> WE HAD FIREFIGHTING COMMONALITY. THE EMERGENCY POWER REDUNDANCY, THINGS THAT SHOULD BE COMMON APPROACHES. AND THE CERTIFICATION FOR THE VARIOUS PIECES OF EQUIPMENT. THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE NOT REGULATED WOULD BE SYSTEM ARCHITECTURE. IN TERMS OF WHAT KIND OF BUS. 

>> THE EMERGENCY POWER REDUNDANCY. 

>> I THINK MOST OF THE GOOD IDEAS ARE OF THERE. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT CERTIFYING THE BATTERIES AND HAVING THE STANDARD TEST THE BATTERY PRODUCERS COULD ENSURE WITH USERS BUYING GOOD FOR THE APPLICATION. 

>> MICHAEL HAS GOT US. 

>> WE THINK IT SHOULD FOCUS ON SAFETY, REDUNDANCY, AND CERTIFICATION OF THE SYSTEM EQUIPMENT. WE DON'T WANT TO STIFLE INNOVATION. 

>> WE HAD VERY LITTLE CONFLICT BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES. THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS WE COULD TALK ABOUT THIS EVENING OVER DRINKS. THINK THE AMBIENT , THAT DEBATE. FOR THE MOST PART, IT'S A GREAT CONSENSUS AROUND SAFETY, STANDARDIZED PERFORMANCE. AND LEVERAGING EXISTING WORK THAT HAS BEEN DONE. AND A CONSENSUS AROUND LET'S NOT OVER CONSTRAIN THE TYPES OF SYSTEMS, THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE SYSTEMS, OR HOW THEY ARE DEPLOYED. LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GET A CONSISTENT MESSAGE FROM OUR COLLEAGUES HERE. 

>> WELCOME TO DOT HEADQUARTERS. THANK YOU FOR ATTENDING. WE DEFINITELY GOT A LOT. FOR THE REGION MARITIME AUTHORITY AND CLASS RULES AND PROJECTS. WE LEARNED A LOT DURING THIS TIME AND WE GENERATED A LOT OF ENERGY IN THE ROOM. SO THAT'S A GOOD THING. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I LEARNED IS I'VE PRONOUNCING THE NAME WRONG FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS. I'M SORRY. I HAVE CONTINUED MISPRONOUNCING NAMES OF THE PANELISTS. WE'VE GOT A GREAT SET OF PANELISTS TO TALK ABOUT THE REGULATIONS, CLASS RULES, AND THE STANDARDS THAT ARE MOST IMPORTANT. SAFETY HAS BECOME MOST EVIDENT. THE WAY WE CAN DO THAT IS WITH STANDARDS AS WELL. THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES TO MOVE FORWARD AND PUSH THE TECHNOLOGY. BEFORE I GET STARTED, I WANT TO MAKE A SHAMELESS PLUG. AND WE HAVE STANDARDS DEVELOPMENT WORKING GROUP. IT IS THE WORKING GROUP ON LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES. WE DO NEED TO REINVENT ANY STANDARDS. WE NEED TO COLLECT WITHOUT THERE AND SEE WHAT KIND OF PORTFOLIO STANDARDS CURRENTLY EXIST, BUT THERE ARE GAPS THAT WE NEED TO PRODUCE AND HELP EVERYBODY IMPROVE SAFETY AND THE TECHNOLOGY APPLICATION. WITH NO FURTHER DELAY, LET'S GET STARTED. THE FIRST PRESENTER WILL BE SENIOR SURVEYOR WITH EXTENSIVE EXPERIENCE AS A MARINE ENGINEER WITH BUILDING A GAS FUELED VESSEL. HE IS ONE OF THE BATTERIES EXPERTS AT THE NORWEGIAN MARITIME AUTHORITY AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DEVELOPMENT OF TENTATIVE REGULATION FOR BATTERY INSTALLATION ON NORWEGIAN VESSELS. SUCH AS THE USE OF LOW FLASHPOINT LIQUID LOWS. HE'S RESPONSIBLE FOR IMPROVING THE FIRST NEW BUILDS. FOR ALTERNATIVE FUELS AND MARITIME AUTHORITY. [APPLAUSE] 

>> ENQUEUE FOR THE INTRODUCTION. YOU'LL START WITH A SHORT INTRODUCTION. . WE ARE THREE EMPLOYEES. AND WE HAVE THE DEPARTMENT OF REGULATION. WE HAVE THOSE ALONG THE COAST. OUR MAIN TASK IS SUPERVISORY AUTHORITY OF A NORWEGIAN FLIGHT. WE ARE WISER AND WE HAVE WISE SHIP OWNERS. IN THE CLIMATE AND ENVIRONMENT. WE WORKING TO BE A DRIVING FORCE FOR NEW GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND WE WANT TO HAVE A STRONG FLAG. I'M GOING TO SHOW A SHORT MOVIE, HOPEFULLY. I GUESS NOT. NO LUCK. AS I SAID, THEY'RE WELCOME TO BE A CONTRIBUTOR. ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY SOLUTION. BUT THE SAFETY LEVELS WOULD BE FOR CONVENTIONAL DESIGN VESSEL. THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY, WE HAVE LIMITED EXPERIENCE WITH IT. WE IDENTIFIED A NEED AND WE CALLED THE GUIDELINES. AND DEPENDING ON THE SIGN, WE DEVELOPED THE GLASSES AND THE RISK OF FIRE AND EXPLOSIONS. NOT EVERYTHING CAN BE HANDLED. THE OBJECTIVES. IDENTIFYING THE RISKS ON BOARD. AND THE RESULT OF THOSE, WE GET THE ROOM AND THE EXPLOSION RELIEF OR FIRE EXTINCTION. FOR ONE OF THE SPECIAL ORGANIZATIONS, AND FOR THE CIRCLE. THE MAIN TOPIC, IT'S AN EXPLOSION. WE HAVE TWO. THE EITHER GO FOR TEST NUMBER ONE, WHICH IS WITHOUT THE SAFETY SYSTEM, SUCH AS FIREFIGHTING OR FIRE EXTINGUISHING. IN THIS TEST SHOULD BE IN A CLOSED SPACE. AND IT SHOULD BE SURROUNDED BY LIVE MODULES. IN TESTING THE MODULES. IT SHOULD HAVE THE LEAST FAVORABLE POSITION. IT SHOULD BE DEACTIVATED IT WOULD BE 24 HOURS. AND THEY HAVE THE SPECIFIC CHALLENGING AREA, THE TEST SHALL BE REPEATED THREE TIMES FOR A ROBUST SYSTEM. AND IF ONE OF THE TESTS FAIL, YOU FACE PROPAGATION. IF YOU FAIL THE FIRST ONE, YOU CONTINUE WITH THIS TEST SET UP. SUCH IS FIREFIGHTING. IT SHOULD BE THAT. THE SAFETY SYSTEMS, SUCH AS FIREFIGHTING. YOU SHOULD SCALE IT WHEN YOU PUT IT ON BOARD IF YOU HAVE PROVEN THAT IN THE TEST. AND YOU HAVE THE SCALE IT UP TO HAVE THE SAME POSSIBILITY TO ASK INGUSH OF FIRE. AND THE RELEASES OF GAS. THIS IS FOR ONE OF THE SYSTEMS OF THE SYSTEMS THAT PASSED THE PROPAGATION TEST. IT SHOULD BE CONDUCTED BY CONTROLLED HEATING OF THE CELL TO ELECT THE GASES. AND IT WILL HAVE A CHARGE WHEN YOU START THE TEST. YOU USE THE DATA FROM THE GAS LINE AND GET THE EXPLOSION ANALYZED. IT IS ONE OF THE MAIN TESTS WE REQUIRE. AND EXPLOSION ANALYZED, THIS IS A SPECIFIC DOCUMENT. AND YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT FROM THE GAS TO GET IT ANALYZED. IF YOU LIMIT THE NUMBER OF CELLS IN THE TEST,, YOU CAN GIVE A GOOD REASON FOR WHY THIS HAPPENED AND USE THESE. IF YOU CAN DOCUMENT NO EXPLOSIVE OCCURRED, IT YOU CAN DO THIS. IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE DIALOGUE EARLY IN THE PROJECT. THE SYSTEMS IT HAS TO BE INTEGRATED. BUT WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS. AN INCREASING NUMBER OF DIFFERENT MANUFACTURERS. BUT THERE STILL ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENTS WITH RULES AND REGULATIONS. JUST A SHORT GLIMPSE. THIS IS THE FIRST OFFSHORE VESSEL. YOU CAN USE THAT UP AGAINST THEM. THE WORLD'S FIRST FISHING VESSEL. THE WORLD'S FIRST ZERO EMISSION FISH FARM VESSEL. AND YOU ALSO HAVE THE VACUUM AND INDUCTIVE CHALLENGING. AND HERE ARE SOME OF THE PROJECTS WE HAVE. AND THAT'S IT. [APPLAUSE] 

>> THANK YOU. 

>> OUR NEXT PRESENTERS FROM VERITAS. HE TOLD ME LIKE I WAS CUSSING. SWEAR ERICKSON. MARITIME NORWAY. HE HAS A MASTERS OF SCIENCE DEGREE IN ELECTRICAL POWER ENGINEERING FROM THE NORWEGIAN UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY. ENJOYING THE D&B IN 2008, RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF D&B. CLASS RULES FOR BATTERY POWERED SHIPS. FROM CLASS RULES DEVELOPMENT, HE WORKED WITH APPROVAL OF ELECTRICAL INSTALLATIONS. BEFORE JOINING , HE WORKED WITH THE POWER SUPPLY TELECOMMUNICATION PLANTS AND WITH RAILROAD SIGNAL SYSTEMS. THE SECOND PRESENTER, AND I CAN GET THIS ONE. THEN GOLLY. HE JOINED AS AN ENGINEER CONTRIBUTING TO RESEARCH AND INNOVATION IN THE STRATEGIC DIVISION RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE FUTURE OF COMPANY SERVICES AND TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH. HE HAS FOCUSED ON EXPERIMENTAL ANALYTICAL EVALUATION OF LITHIUM-ION BATTERY SYSTEMS. HIS WORK FOCUSED ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF TECHNICAL UNDERSTANDING, SUPPORTING BOTH STATIONARY AND MARITIME BUSINESSES. DR. GULLEY HAS RECENTLY TRANSFERRED TO MARITIME ADVISORIES AND ALL SLOW TO SUPPORT THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF BATTERY DEPLOYMENT IN THE MARITIME ENVIRONMENT INCLUDING SAFETY, TECHNOLOGY, EVOLUTION, AS WELL AS LAKE TIME AND AGGRADATION. HE COMPLETED HIS DOCTORAL WORK IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN WITH ENERGY SYSTEM MODELING SIMULATOR AND CONTROLS. HE WORKS AS A PRELIMINARY ADDRESSING POWER TRADE AND ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS. RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY AND RELATED SUBJECTS FROM PERSPECTIVES OF OPERATIONAL ANALYSIS. 

>> THANKS FOR BEING HERE. THEY'LL GIVE THAT LONGER INTRODUCTION. 

>> TO DO IT JUSTICE. 

>> ON THIS PICTURE, IT HAS EITHER BEEN BUILT WITH BATTERIES OR UNDER CONSTRUCTION. THERE ARE VESSELS THAT ARE FULL ELECTRIC AND THERE ARE VESSELS THAT ARE HYBRID. I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THIS. THAT VESSEL IS GOING TO HAVE THAT WITH BATTERIES. IT WILL TRAVEL WHERE THEY PRODUCED ENERGY. AND FOR 45 MINUTES. DROP OFF A PASSENGER, GO BACK AND RECHARGE. I SUGGEST THAT THEY USE THE SALE INSTEAD. YOU SEE THIS ON TOP. IT IS A POLAR CRUISE VESSEL AND IT WILL GO TO THE NORTH POLE, SOUTH POLE. AND IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL AREAS THAT YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WITH. IT IS POSSIBLE TO GO ALONE. SO THAT IS ALL ABOUT THOSE. I CAN SHOW YOU AN INDEX OF SOME CLASSROOMS. NOT THAT SEXY, MAYBE. WE MADE CLASSROOMS IN 2015 FOR BATTERY POWERED VESSELS. THEY ARE USED FOR APPROVAL. BUT WE'RE RATHER PROUD OF THE NEW ONE. IT IS SOME PROSPECTIVE RULES. IT IS IN FOUR PARTS. THE FIRST IS YOU KNOW THE DOCUMENTATION. WHAT KIND OF COMPONENTS YOU NEED IN THIS LIST AS THEY CHARGE THEM TO HELP. THOSE THINGS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER TODAY. AND IT IS A CHAPTER OF THE SAFETY OF THE BATTERY INSTALLATION. WE GO BACK TO ALL OF THIS. THE THIRD PART IS USING THE BATTERIES AS THE PROPOSAL. IN THE FIRST PART IS THE REQUIREMENT OF THE BATTERY SYSTEM. SO WHAT WE HAVE DONE , IF YOU HAVE THE VESSEL AND YOU WANT THE BATTERY INSTALLED, WE SAY YOU NEED A BATTERY SAFETY NOTATION. AND THIS REQUIREMENT FOR THE BATTERY SPACE, IT'S ABOUT HIGHER SAFETY. AND IT'S ABOUT ALL THESE THINGS YOU NEED TO MAKE. SO THIS NOTATION IS NOT INTENDED WHEN YOU HAVE A BATTERY POWERED -- JUST WHEN YOU USE IT AS AN ADDITIONAL SOURCE OF POWER. YOU CAN STILL FAIL THE SHIP. -- SALE THE SHIFT. -- SAIL THE SHIP. AND THE OTHER NOTATION, THEN, IF YOU'RE GOING TO RUN THE BATTERIES ALONE, YOU NEED TO HAVE THIS BATTERY NOTATION. THIS IS RELATED TO THE SAFETY PART. IT ALSO SETS THE REQUIREMENTS FOR REDUNDANCY AND HOW TO ARRANGE THE BATTERY-POWERED VESSEL. SO THIS IS A NOTATION YOU NEED WHEN BATTERY IS THE MAIN SOURCE OF POWER. AND IN ADDITION IF YOU HAVE IT WITH DYNAMIC POSITIONING. SO THEN, A LITTLE ABOUT THE REQUIREMENT. AND THE COALITION. THEY HAVE THE BATTERY ROOM. IT IS TYPICALLY -- TYPICALLY A ZERO. WITH EVERYONE IN THE ROOM , IT IS REPRESENTATIVE. WITH ALL THAT THEY HAVE IN THAT ROOM. ALL THIS TOGETHER WITH A SINGLE GEAR AND OTHER MAIN FUNCTIONS. AND WE HAVE GOOD, AMBIENT TEMPERATURE IN THE ROOM. AND IT MIGHT NOT BE THE FULL SCOPE, MAY BE, BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE CONTROL OF THE TEMPERATURE IN YOUR ROOM, IT'S A GOOD SIGN OF THE BATTERY. WE HAVE THE REQUIREMENT FOR VENTILATION. YOU NEED MORE VENTILATION IN THE ROOM. IF YOU HAVE A THERMAL EVENT, YOU NEED MAYBE YOU NEED TO SPEED UP THE VENTILATION TO GET OUT THE GAS. IT IS EMERGENCY VENTILATION. AND IN ADDITION, IF THE ROOM FEELS GAS DANGEROUS, THEN YOU HAVE A THERMAL EVENT, OR IF YOU HAVE THAT BEFORE, WHEN THE BATTERY STARTS GASSING. YOU HAVE TO RESEARCH THAT ALSO. YES, FIRE SAFETY, WE HAVE THE BATTERY SAFE , SHALL BE IN THE MACHINIST SPACE. REQUIREMENTS THAT THAT GIVES. WE TALKED ABOUT A60 AND A0. THERE WILL BE MORE PROPAGATION IN THE BATTERY SYSTEM, AND THE SPACES THAT ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE PROPAGATION BETWEEN CELLS, NONE OF THEM ALLOWED TO HAVE IT OUTSIDE OF THE MODULE. I NEED PROPER FIRE DETECTION AND FIRE EXTINCTION. AND THOSE USE BOTH SPACES, FIRE EXTINGUISH MEDIUM. BUT SINCE THERE ARE NO SIGNS OF PROVEN CERTIFIED EXTINGUISH SYSTEM FOR THE FIRES, WE ARE OPEN FOR ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS. THERE IS A GUIDELINE ON THAT IN THE ROOM. SO THAT IS THE PART OF THE BATTERY. [INDISCERNIBLE] AND THEN YOU HAVE TO CHECK OUT ALL OF THESE PERSPECTIVE GROUPS IF THEY ARE STILL AND IF THEY ARE RELEVANT. THE SAFETY ASSESSMENT CAN OVERRULE SOME OF THE REQUIREMENTS THAT CAME BEFORE. THAT IS IMPORTANT. IT IS SOME REQUIREMENTS TO THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM, SO YOU NEED TO, OF COURSE WITH BATTERY, YOU NEED THE SHORT-CIRCUIT, AND THE ISOLATION. YOU CAN WORK WITH THE NEIGHBORING EQUIPMENT. THERE IS REQUIREMENTS OF TESTING OF THIS SPACE WHERE YOU ARE PUTTING THE BATTERY OR THE FIRE EXTINGUISHER SYSTEM AND THE POSSIBLE GAS CONVECTION AND SO ON. AND THERE IS REQUIREMENTS FOR MAINTENANCE MANUAL. THAT IS BATTERY SAFE SYSTEM, AND THEN I GO INTO ELECTRIC POWER REQUIREMENTS . THE RULES ARE ALL ON THE WEB. YOU CAN JUST RUN HOME AND READ IT AFTER THIS. [LAUGHTER] 

>> SO WHEN YOU HAVE A FACTORY GERMAN VESSEL, PIER VESSEL, YOU NEED TO MAKE THOSE POWERS EQUAL TO WHEN YOU HAVE AN ORDINARY SOLAR CHIP. BUT IF YOU HAVE THIS POLAR CREWS VESSEL, -- CRUISE VESSEL, YOU ONLY NEED ONE BATTERY, AND YOU WILL DRIVE WITH YOUR BATTERIES INTO THE FEE OR -- FJORD. THE REQUIREMENTS OF CABLE ROUTING, WE HAVE A DIFFERENT SYSTEM, GOING AWAY FROM EACH OTHER, THE CABLES. AND OF COURSE THE CIRCUIT BREAKERS, THAT IS IMPORTANT, BUT IS SO IF YOU HAVE A FAILURE IN THE SYSTEM, THE BREAK CLOSEST TO THE FEEL THAT IS DRIPPING. THAT SHOULD BE A CHALLENGE WHEN YOU HAVE A BATTERY CONNECTED TO A CONVERTER, AND THEN GOING THROUGH THE SYSTEM AND DOWN TO THE PROPELLER. THE CONVERTER NORMALLY DOES NOT HAVE SHORT-TERM CAPACITY. IT CAN BE LITTLE CHALLENGING. IT IS POSSIBLE. AND THEN, IT SHALL BE POSSIBLE TO HAVE LOCAL OPERATIONS, SO YOU SHALL BE ABLE TO OPERATE IF THE BRIDGES BURNING. -- IS BURNING. THERE IS A REQUIREMENT FOR ENERGY IN THE SYSTEM. AND REQUIREMENTS FOR TESTING. AND YOU KNOW, STATE OF HEALTH. WE HAVE GOT TO TALK ABOUT STATE OF HEALTH. THAT IS IN THE WAY, MY STATE OF HEALTH IS PROBABLY [INDISCERNIBLE] I BELIEVE. 6100. BUT WHEN YOU HAVE THE CAPACITY OR THE AVAILABLE ENERGY ON THE VESSEL, YOU NEED TO TRUST WHAT YOU SEE. MY PC IS NOT TO TRUST, BECAUSE IF I SEE THE BAR GRAPH ON MY PC, I HAVE SHORTED, 100%. WHEN IS OFF, IT GOES DOWN TO 0% IN FIVE MINUTES. SO ACTUALLY, IT SHOULD HAVE NOT PERCENTAGES. IT IS 5% WHEN IT IS FULLY CHARGED AT THAT TIME. THAT IS IMPORTANT ON THE VESSEL WHERE YOU ARE, WHERE YOU HAVE TO TRUST WHAT YOU SEE FROM YOUR BATTERY VIEW OPTIONS. SO IT IS A REQUIREMENT ALSO FOR TESTING ON THIS, SURVEY AFTER SAILING WITH THE VESSEL TO VERIFY IT. YES, AND THAT IS ENERGY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. AND THIS WILL NORMALLY BE A PART OF THE POWER MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. YOU HAVE FUNCTIONALITY, AND IS REQUIRED THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE THIRD PARTY. AND THEN THE LAST PART WITH FACTORY MANUFACTURERS, THEY GIVE A VERY ONE IN -- ONE VERY IMPORTANT DOCUMENT. THEY DESCRIBE ALL THAT THEY SEE AND EFFORTS THAT ARE WITH THEIR BATTERY. THEY TALK ABOUT GAS DEVELOPMENT, FIRE RISK, SUBMERSION, AND ALL HOW THEY HANDLE THERMAL RUNAWAY. AND THESE DOCUMENTS, THE SHIPYARD OR THE TIMING, IT IS USED FOR SAFETY ASSESSMENTS. THIS WILL BE THE INPUT. WHEN WE ARE DOING A CERTIFICATION OF A BACK SPRING, THAT DOCUMENT IS ON THE DELIVERANCE. TO A CERTIFIED BATTERY. IT IS REQUIRED THAT THE BATTERY HAVE AN INTEGRATED CMS. YOU NEED TO HAVE THIS INTEGRATED. AND IT SHALL DO THE THINGS THAT THEY HAVE LEARNED ABOUT NOW TODAY. IT SHALL CONTROL THE BATTERY AND PROJECT AND MONITOR. THE ALKALINE, STATE OF CHARGE AND STATE OF HEALTH. AND IT SHALL HAVE AN INDEPENDENCE TEMPERATURE SHUTDOWN. WE REQUIRE THIS TEMPERATURE SHUTDOWN, IF THE BMS CARD FAILS OR SOMETHING FAILS IN THE PMS -- BMS, YOU WILL STILL BE ABLE TO TO TAKE HIGH TEMPERATURE. IF YOU GO AND BUY A COMMERCIAL TEST TO BE USED ON A CAR , YOU WILL PROBABLY NOT GET THAT FUNCTION. SO THIS IS A CHALLENGE. FOR THE BATTERY PRODUCERS. IN ADDITION, IT IS REQUIRED THERE SHALL BE EMERGENCY DISCONNECT ON THE BUTTON, AND THIS SHALL BE LOCATED OUT BY THE BATTERY SPACE, BUT IF YOU HAVE THE BATTERY AND COMMONPLACE, IT IS ON THE BRIDGE. THEY DID A LOT OF TESTS. THE DID THIS WITHOUT SOME ON THE SYSTEM LEVEL. IN THE EGL SPACE, THE COST [INDISCERNIBLE] BUT AS WHAT THEY NORMALLY DO, AND IT IS FOR SAFETY TESTING, FOR MARRYING THE USE. AND THEN THERE IS THE PROPAGATION TEST, AND A TEST FOR THE BMS TO CHECK THE FUNCTIONS, AND IS TESTING OF SOLE-SOURCE AND SO ON -- SELL SOURCE AND SO ON. SO THESE TESTS DO JUST ONCE AT MODULE, ON THE PROPAGATION TEST . YOU DO A PART OF THE SYSTEM. YOU DO THIS JUST ONCE. SO YOU DIDN'T JUST -- YOU DO THEM JUST ONCE, THEN YOU DO ROUTINE. INSTEAD OF TESTING OUT THE TEMPERATURE SENSOR, YOU JUST MANIPULATE THE VALUES THAT THE BMS IS OPERATING CORRECTLY. YES. AND WITH THAT, I THINK ONE MINUTE. 

>> DIFFERENT PRESENTATION? I THINK REALLY THERE IS AN INTENTIONAL FIREWALL BETWEEN CLASSIFICATION, AND I AM IN ADVISORY. SO WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO TALK ABOUT THE RULES. BEING IN ADVISORY, THERE IS A LOT GOING ON THAT IS FAIR DEVELOPMENT HERE. WE ARE HEARING ABOUT THE BATTERY SAFETY TESTING THAT IS REQUIRED AND EARLIER. I WORKED WITH FABIAN ON A LOT OF TESTING THESE PROJECTS. THE TEST REQUIREMENTS THAT EXIST NOW AND HIM HIS PRESENTATION -- IN HIS PRESENTATION, THERE ARE STILL KNOWLEDGE GAPS THAT EXIST. SO WHAT WE ARE DOING WITH THE TESTING THAT IS REQUIRED TO FILL THOSE IN, GET THE UNDERSTANDING AND UPDATE THE REQUIREMENT RULES, WHERE WE NEED THEM TO BE, WE ARE BASICALLY INDICATING AS PART OF A BATTERY SAFETY GATE TO KIND OF GET THE LAST RESULT, THE LAST QUESTIONS RESOLVED. THAT IS SOMETHING WE ARE PUTTING TOGETHER. ALSO WE TALKED ABOUT THE NEED FOR KIND OF SUMMARIZING A LOT OF THESE THINGS. WE ARE PUTTING TOGETHER A HANDBOOK ON MARITIME BATTERY SYSTEM, EXPLAIN WHAT THE BATTERY IS, POWER VERSUS ENERGY, AND A LITTLE BIT OF GUIDANCE FOR THE ENGINE TO WALK THROUGH ISSUES AND PUT ALL THIS TOGETHER. I WILL NOT TALK ABOUT ANY OF THE THINGS -- HAD TO LEAVE EARLY, SO IT IS QUESTIONS AROUND THAT, BUT WORK WE ARE PUTTING TOGETHER TO FOLLOW UP THAT ARE EVEN MORE SPECIFIC TO MARITIME APPLICATIONS, HOW DO YOU SPEAK TO THOSE, BUT THEN ALSO ANYTHING ELSE. 

>> OUR LAST PRESENTER FOR TODAY IS MICHAEL ROWE. THIS ONE I CAN HANDLE, WITH ABS, AND MICHAEL EARNED HIS BACHELOR DEGREE IN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING FROM THE CITADEL IN 1986. HE LATER EARNED A MASTERS DEGREE IN INFORMATION SYSTEMS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND, BALTIMORE COUNTY, IN 2009. HE HAD 29 YEARS' E XPERIENCE IN ELECTRICAL POWER, AUTOMATION, NAVIGATION, MUNICATION SYSTEMS. -- COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS. HE HAS WORKED WITH A WIDE VARIETY OF COMMERCIAL, NAVAL AND OFFSHORE PROJECTS. HE IS CURRENTLY ASSIGNED SENIOR PRINCIPAL ENGINEER AT THE ABS SINGAPORE OFFICE. YOU ARE A LONG WAY FROM HOME. 

>> I AM IN WASHINGTON NOW. 

>> HE IS BACK HOME. HE IS A MEMBER OF ITRIPWE, SNAME,'S AREAS OF INTERESTS INCLUDE HYBRID SYSTEMS, ADVANCED ENERGY STORAGE, FUEL, RENEWABLE ENERGY ON COMMERCIAL AND NAVAL MARINE VESSELS AND PLATFORMS. MICHAEL. 

MICHAEL: I WILL PROVIDE A QUICK UPDATE ON ABS CLASS RULES AND GUIDANCE FOR LITHIUM ION BATTERY INSTALLATIONS. WE ARE NOT QUITE SO FAR IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE RULES. RIGHT NOW WE HAVE KIND OF LIKE A POLICY GUIDELINE THAT ARE NOT IN THE RULES YET. I WILL GO OVER THOSE, AND WE HAVE RULES ON HYPERBARIC CHAMBERS, BUT FOR SHIPS IT IS LIKE, IF YOU WERE TO SUBMIT A LITHIUM-ION BATTERY DESIGN, I WILL GO OVER ALL OF THE THINGS WE WILL ASK FOR. EVENTUALLY THIS WILL BE PUBLISHED IN OUR RULES IF NOT NEXT YEAR, THE YEAR AFTER. WE ARE CATCHING UP A LITTLE. ALL RIGHT, HERE IS A QUICK SUMMARY OF THE THINGS I WILL TALK ABOUT, EVERYTHING FROM PLANS AND DATA THAT NEED TO BE SUBMITTED, PROTECTION OF MAINTENANCE, LOCATIONS, SAFETY DATA SHEETS, BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS, A LOT OF THE SAME STUFF IN THE D&D RULES. WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS REQUIRE -- RECOVER, SO AT THE END, I HAD A SEPARATE SLIDE PRESENTATION ON EIGHT SEPARATE PROJECTS, BUT THAT GOT CUT. I WILL MENTION IT BRIEFLY. FOR STARTERS, IF YOU ARE DOING A LARGE INSTALLATION LIKE ELECTRIC PROPULSION OR ALL BATTERY POWER , OR USING LITHIUM-ION FOR EMERGENCY SERVICES, WE WILL REQUIRE HAS ID, HAS RISK ANALYSIS, UNIT CERTIFICATION FOR THE BATTERIES, ELECTRIC PROPULSION OR CENTRAL SERVICES , STRUCTURAL FIRE PROTECTION WILL BE REQUIRED FOR THE BATTERY ROOM. A60 AND THAT KIND OF THING. ALSO THE FACTORING OF THE BATTERY AND SYSTEM NEED TO BE UNDER A APPROVED CASH AND APPROVED INTO -- INSURANCE QUALITY. SO RISK ANALYSIS, ANYTHING TESTING FOR THE RULES THAT IS FOR ENVIRONMENTAL ABUSE TESTING, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT. THE CELLS HAVE TO BE MANUFACTURED DIRECT, NOT STANDARD, AND THERE IS A LOT OF OTHER STUFF FOR UNIT CERTIFICATION. WE GO FURTHER WITH THE FUNCTIONAL CONSCRIPTION -- WE MAY EVEN ASK FOR SERVICE EXPERIENCE. IF IT IS A NEW SYSTEM, JUST TO SHOW IT HAS A SERVICE RECORD. AND THEN MORE PLANS AND DATA. THIS IS MORE FOR THE INSTALLATION. THE FIRST SLIDE IS WHAT WE REQUIRE FROM THE BATTERY VENDOR. THIS IS MORE THE SHIPYARD OR THE INSTALLER. FOR THIS, THE APPROVAL DOCUMENTATION FROM THE VENDOR, THE TEST REPORTS, THE FUNCTIONAL DESCRIPTION OF THE MS, ARRANGEMENT, PLAN, STORAGE LOCATION. THAT IS KIND OF CRITICAL. THERE IS INCONSISTENCY WHICH IS AN ALLOWABLE LOCATION. I HAVE SEEN THEM STORED RIGHT NEXT TO THE GENERATOR. WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT, THE RISK OF FIRE AND HEAT BUILDUP. WE WANT TO ALLOW THAT TO BE ALLOWABLE? MAYBE WE NEED TO REQUIRE ABOVE A CERTAIN RATING. WE SHOULD PUT IN A DEDICATED BATTERY ROOM DUE TO THE HEIGHTENED RISK WITH A LARGE SCALE INSTALLATION. AND THEN GOING ON FURTHER, TEST PROCEDURES, INSULATION -- INSTALLATION, FIRE PROCEDURES, SHUTDOWNS, IF THE SPACE IS DESIGNATED, HAS AN AREA OF CLASSIFICATION, AND THEN THERE IS MANUALS AND MAINTENANCE. SO LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS WE REQUIRE, RISK ANALYSIS . THESE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED AS PART OF RISK ANALYSIS. THIS WOULD PROBABLY BE DONE BY THE ADDERLEY VENDOR OR SYSTEM VENDOR OR MAYBE A -- BATTERY VENDOR OR MAYBE SYSTEM VENDOR. THIS HAS TO BE ADDRESSED AS PART OF RISK ANALYSIS. AND THEN THERE IS ALSO RISK ANALYSIS, EXTERNAL HEATING, YOU KNOW, THE MEASURES TO PREVENT THERMAL RUNAWAY, EXTERNAL HEATING. IT MIGHT BE THINGS LIKE FIRE BARRIERS, FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEMS, APPROPRIATE MEASURES FOR FIRE AND FLOODING. AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU LOSE COMMUNICATION WITH THE BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM? HOW DOES IT PREVENT THE SYSTEMS FROM GOING TO THERMAL RUNAWAY? AND THEN SOME THINGS ABOUT SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS FOR THE BATTERY AND THE BMS. ROBUST ENCLOSURE, THE BMS HAS A WHOLE LIST OF CONTROL PROTECTION SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS DISCUSSED. IT HAVE TO BE REDUNDANCY, THE BMS SYSTEM, MAINTENANCE, SPILLAGE -- THAT WOULD PROBABLY NOT APPLY. THE SIZE OF CONNECTING CABLES, OUTGOING CIRCUIT REJECTION, BATTERY PACKS SHOULD NOT BE IN THE EMERGENCY SWITCHBOARD SPACE. HE WANTS THEM SEPARATE. MECHANICAL ISOLATION OPPRESSOR SYSTEMS -- OF PRESSURE SYSTEMS. ALARMS AND SHUTDOWNS, THESE SHUT DOWN FROM THE BRIDGE. HERE ARE A LIST OF ALARMS THAT HE DID BE PROVIDED AT A CONTINUOUSLY MANNED LOCATION. -- AT A -- HERE ARE A LIST OF ALARMS THAT NEED TO BE PROVIDED AT A CONTINUOUSLY MANNED LOCATION. THE BMS , THE SOFTWARE ITSELF HAS TO BE TESTED FOR CATEGORY TWO, CATEGORY TWO SYSTEM IN THE RULES . IT REQUIRES A LOT OF SOFTWARE TESTING. WE LOOK AT GRADING, VENTILATION, THAT IS IMPORTANT. THE FIREFIGHTING SYSTEM -- THIS IS WHERE I HAVE LOOKED, I WROTE A PAPER ON BATTERY SAFETY. WE ARE ALL OVER THE MAP. IF YOU TALK TO AVIATION , WHERE THEY STORE LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES IN THE CARGO PLANE, THEY USE NITROGEN. THEY USE AN INERT GAS. IF YOU TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE, SOME ENTITIES USE FOAM LIKE IN BUILDINGS. THE NAVY, THEY LIKE TO USE SPRINKLING, YOU KNOW, WATER TRICKLING SYSTEM, BUT THEY LIKE TO AVOID MIXED GAS BECAUSE THEY ARE CONCERNED THAT IF YOU RELEASE THE GAS LIKE CO2, THERE IS STATIC ELECTRICITY WHEN IT COMES OUT OF THE NOZZLE. THEY ARE CONCERNED THAT MIGHT IGNITE THE COMBUSTIBLE GASES THAT MIGHT BE PRESENT. THE ONLY RECOMMEND PORTABLE CO2 EXTINGUISHERS IF IT IS A LITTLE FIRE. IF IT IS OUT OF CONTROL, THEY SAY, CLOSE EVERYTHING UP. ASKED WITH IT, THAN. THAT IS THE OTHER THING THAT IS DIFFERENT. UNLIKE A NORMAL FIRE RIGHT AND YOU WANT TO SHUT THE FANS DOWN, WHEN YOU HAVE GOT IT UNDER CONTROL, YOU HAVE GOT TO HAVE A METHOD OF VENTILATING THE COMBUSTIBLE GASES THAT MAY HAVE BUILT UP. THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DEBATE, SHOULD I DO THAT BEFORE I RELEASE THE WATER OR AFTER? THE KEY THING IS COOLING. UNLIKE A NORMAL BATTERY FIRE, YOU REALLY -- IT IS ANNEXED THERMIC REACTION, IT WILL CONTINUE TO DISSIPATE HEAT UNTIL ALL OF THE ENERGY IS GONE. WE MAY REQUIRE THAT TO BE CLASS ONE DEPENDING ON THE RISK OF BUILDUP OF COMBUSTIBLE GAS. STORAGE LOCATION, ARRANGEMENT, HERE YOU WANT TO SEE AN ARRANGEMENT DRAWING OF THE BATTERY ROOM SO WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT ELSE IS IN THERE , OR IS IT IS NOT, WE WANT TO SAY, ARE THERE OTHER ESSENTIAL EQUIPMENT THAT WE WANT TO AVOID? AND THEN WHERE DOES THE WHOLE BATTERY COMMISSION PROCEDURES, THIS IS TESTING THAT HAS TO BE DONE DURING COMMISSIONING. EVERYTHING FROM SAFETY FUNCTIONS TO, YOU KNOW, ALARMS AND THAT KIND OF THING. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ONE, SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THE VESSEL OPERATOR CAN KEEP USING THE BATTERY PACK WHILE IGNORING FALSE ALARMS. THAT WAS A LESSON LEARNED. I HAVE SEEN A SHIP WHERE IF YOU GET A CERTAIN ALARM, IT SHUTS ITSELF DOWN, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CODE. BASICALLY YOU HAVE TO CALL THE VENDOR TO COME ON BOARD, AND ONLY THE VENDOR IS ALLOWED TO REBOOT THE SYSTEM. THAT WAS ANOTHER BIG LESSON LEARNED, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE IGNORING ALARMS. NOW REAL QUICK, EVERYTHING I MENTIONED HAS BEEN FOR SHIPS. THAT WILL EVENTUALLY BECOME PART OF THE RULES, THEN FOR HYPERBARIC CHAMBER FACILITIES, A DIVING BELL OR SOMETHING, WE STILL HAVE SPECIFIC CRITERIA YOU KNOW. I WILL NOT MENTION THESE IN-DEPTH BECAUSE THEY DO HAVE SPECIFIC RULES FOR HYPERBARIC FACILITIES, FOR THE BATTERIES AND THE NEXT SLIDE TALKS TO THE INSTALLATION, I BELIEVE, FOR MANNED APPLICATIONS, AND THEN UNMANNED APPLICATIONS. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BMS SYSTEM, NO CHARGING AT SEA. IT HAS GOT TO BE CARRIED OUT AT PORT. THESE ARE VERY SPECIAL, SPECIALTY VESSELS, SO THESE RULES WOULD NOT APPLY TO A SHIP. WE HAVE MADE SOME PROGRESS HERE , AND IN CONCLUSION, THIS IS A VERY UNIQUE HAZARD ASSOCIATED. YOU HAVE GOT TO HAVE SUFFICIENT SAFEGUARDS, LOOK AT EVERYTHING FROM MATERIAL SELECTION, CHEMISTRY, THAT IS MORE FOR THE DESIGNER. IT IS THOROUGH TESTING OF THE BATTERY AND MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. LARGER UNITS NEED BETTER CERTIFICATION. AND THEN WE HAVE THESE INTERNAL GUIDELINES ARE JUST WENT OVER THAT WILL EVENTUALLY BECOME PUBLISHED AS PART OF THE RULES. WE ARE DEVELOPING THAT. I SHOULD ALSO MENTION, THIS WAS ON MY OTHER SLIDESHOW THAT GOT CUT, BUT WE DO HAVE A NEW GUIDE FOR WHAT IS CALLED THE ABS ADVISORY FOR HYBRID ELECTRIC POWER SYSTEMS, I BELIEVE IT IS AVAILABLE ON THE WEBSITE FOR DOWNLOAD. IT TALKS ABOUT CURRENT STATUS OF COMPONENT TECHNOLOGIES, ADVANTAGES AND CHALLENGES, COVERS ENERGY STORAGE, DATA READS, CAPACITORS, FLYWHEELS, SOLAR WIND, AND WE HAVE HAD A COUPLE OF PRODUCT DESIGN ASSESSMENTS AND TYPE APPROVALS . WE HAVE HAD A COUPLE OF LITHIUM-ION BATTERY DESIGNS WE HAVE DONE TYPE APPROVALS ON, AND WE HAVE HAD SEVERAL PROJECTS -- I DON'T HAVE A SLIDE WITH VICTORS OF SHIPS, BUT WE HAVE HAD FOR EXAMPLE, THE OSB IN SINGAPORE. IT IS A FIREFIGHTING OSB, IT IS A LOT OF THINGS. IT HAS A UNIQUE APPLICATION I HAVE NOT HEARD MENTIONED. EVERYBODY WERE MEMBERS WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE BIG BLOWOUT WHERE THEY HAD THE BIG GAS CLOUD ENVELOPING THE WHOLE RIG, THE ENGINES STARTED TO SPEED UP BECAUSE THEY WERE INGESTING GAS? THIS SHIP, IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN AND IT GOT ENVELOPED IN A GAS CLOUD, IT CAN GO ON ALL BATTERY POWER AND SHUT ALL ENGINES DOWN. THAT IS ANOTHER APPLICATION OF THE BUILDUP OF COMBUSTIBLE GAS, PRETTY NEAT, AND THEY SHOWED ME HOW TO DO IT, SET ALL THE ENGINES DOWN, THEY GO ON BATTERY POWER, THEY HAVE 30 MINUTES OF POWER, MAYBE NOT REAL HIGH SPEED, BUT ENOUGH TO GET YOU AWAY FROM THE HAZARD YARD. AND WE HAVE DOTS WITH BATTERIES -- YACHTS WITH BATTERIES ONBOARD. WE HAVE WORKED ON SEVERAL PROJECTS FOR HYPER VESSELS, BUT THAT IS ALL I HAVE FOR TODAY. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] 

>> THANK YOU, UNCLE. WE HAVE TIME FOR QUESTIONS. SO IF ANYBODY HAS GOT A QUESTION FOR ANY OF OUR PEOPLE WHO ARE -- OUR PEOPLE? 

>> I WOULD LIKE TO FIND OUT WHAT TYPE OF PROBLEMS HAVE YOU HAD? HAVE YOU HAD ANY PROBLEMS, OR HAVE YOU HAD A LOT OF PROBLEMS YOU ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT? WHERE ARE YOU ON THE PROBLEM, WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN IN THE INDUSTRY? 

>> [INDISCERNIBLE] HELLO, HERE I AM. [LAUGHTER] 

>> WELL, YOU MEAN THE CERTIFICATION PROCESS OF BATTERIES? THERE HAVE BEEN ISSUES. BATTERIES THAT HAVE BEEN SUPPOSED TO NOT PROPAGATE HAVE BURNED DOWN, FOR INSTANCE. AND FOR THE VESSEL I AM SAILING, I KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN AVAILABILITY PROBLEMS WITH THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY. IT IS THE FIRST DELIVERY OF THIS, THERE IS CHILDHOOD DISEASES FOR THE TECHNOLOGY. I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY MAJOR SAFETY ISSUES SO FAR. THE VESSEL I SHOWED YOU, IT IS NINE OF THEM THAT ARE FAILING. THE FIRST ONE WAS IN 2013. THE BASE IS NOT THAT BIG YET. WE WILL SEE. NOW THERE IS 25 VESSELS WITH THE BATTERIES. 

>> I DON'T KNOW WHICH PANELIST HAS A QUESTION, BUT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT GAS DETECTION AND VENTILATION, I AM WONDERING -- I WAS UP THERE EARLIER, THERE ARE MODULES DESIGNED TO BE [INDISCERNIBLE] DOES THAT PRECLUDE THAT BATTERY STORAGE GAS DETECTION? 

>> IT DEPENDS, BECAUSE IT -- IF YOU HAVE SUCH SYSTEMS , YOU HAVE TO GET THE GASES OUT. IF YOU HAVE GOT TO START EXTRACTING THE GAS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU NEED GAS DETECTION. OR A WAY TO DETECT THERE IS GAS THERE. BUT THE FAN CONTINUES TO KEEP RUNNING, YOU PROBABLY DON'T NEED [INDISCERNIBLE] 

>> WOULDN'T THE GAS BE UNDER PRESSURE BECAUSE IT WOULD BE UNDERSTATED? -- HEATED? ISN'T THAT JUST VENTILATION? 

>> IT WOULD BE RELEASED FROM THE MODULE, BUT WHEN IS OUTSIDE , WOULD IT BE FORCIBLY VENTILATED ALL THE WAY TO THE PRESSURE CREATED, GETS INTO HOW THE SYSTEM IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED, AND WHEN AND IF YOU WILL HAVE AN ATMOSPHERE ALONG THOSE LINES. 

>> THE RULES THAT YOU HAVE TO VENTILATE SUCH THINGS OUT OF THE VESSEL TO FREE AREA NOT GOING TOGETHER WITH OTHER THINGS. YOU NEED TO GET THE GAS AWAY. 

>> I THINK IT IS KIND OF A SPECIAL CASE, SPECIAL INNOVATIVE DESIGN, ALMOST SIMILAR TO HOW THEY, YOU KNOW, PRESSURIZED ENCLOSURES WHERE THAT SYSTEM IS PREVENTING GAS BUILDUP. THE SYSTEM OF GAS, WHERE YOU NEED THEM WOULD PROBABLY BE A PART OF THE RISK ASSESSMENT. WE WOULD HAVE TO SEE THE WHOLE DESIGN. I DON'T WANT TO SAY A DEFINITE ANSWER, BUT THAT IS ONE OF THE CHALLENGES OF LITHIUM-ION. WE ARE COMING UP WITH THESE REQUIREMENTS -- IT IS A NEW TECHNOLOGY. IT ALL IS LIKE A CASE BY CASE THING. QUESTION HERE FOR MIKE, YOU MENTIONED ABOUT NEW RULES COMING OUT, WHAT IS THE TIMELINE AND TEST HER THAT? 

>> I DON'T WANT TO COMMIT TO ANYTHING. WE HAVE HAD THIS POLICY FOR A WHILE NOW, I THINK AT LEAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS. I KNOW TECHNOLOGY IS WORKING ON -- INITIALLY IT WAS GOING TO BE GUIDE, GUIDANCE NOTES, NOW IT IS AN ADVISORY DOCUMENT, NOT SO MUCH DETAIL. THE LONG-TERM GOAL IS TO GET ALL OF THIS STUFF I MENTIONED. IT IS RIGHT NOW KIND OF BEHIND A CURTAIN. THAT WILL BECOME A PART OF THE RULES. WE WILL PUT IT OUT FOR COMMENT BEFORE WE MAKE THE RULE CHANGES, BUT WHO KNOWS, WE MIGHT ASSIGN IT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. 

>> TOM HAS GOT ONE FROM THE WEB. 

>> HOW IS THE THERMAL RUNAWAY PROPAGATION TEST DEFINED? DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER RULE? 

>> WE LOOKED AT THE TEST DESCRIBED THE ISD STANDARD, AND THERE WAS SOME ISSUES, WE DIDN'T LIKE. FOR INSTANCE, THE BATTERY SYSTEM SHOULD ONLY BE MOMENTS AFTER THE TEST. SO WE HAVE SEEN THAT BATTERY SYSTEM THAT HAD A THERMAL EVENT COULD BE WITHOUT FOR ONE HOUR, MAYBE AFTER THE HOUR HAD PASSED, AND IT IS NOT -- IT IS NOT DESCRIBED YOU HAVE TO REPEAT THE TEST, SO YOU DO ONE TEST, AND IF IT GOES OK, YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO TEST ANYMORE. WE HAVE SEEN DIFFERENT STORIES FROM DIFFERENT REPEATED TESTS. IT IS NOT SATISFIED THAT YOU SHALL DO THE TEST INSIDE OF A CLOSE IN DEPARTMENT. AND IS NOT SPECIFIED THE BIO EXTINGUISHING SYSTEM SHOULD BE USED. THERE WERE SOME DETAILS WE DIDN'T LIKE , THEREFORE WE FOUND IT APPROPRIATE TO PUMP SOME ISSUES. 

>> I HAD TWO QUESTIONS, ONE IS FROM APL, WILL THERE BE RULES BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU? MY OTHER IS MORE SPECIFIC THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS FOR TESTING DURING OPERATION OF THE VESSEL. IF YOU HAVE A FIRE PROTECTION SYSTEM LIKE WATER, COULD IT DAMAGE YOUR BATTERY , HOW ARE YOU GOING TO HANDLE THAT? 

>> RIGHT, SO IN GENERAL, THE CLASS SOCIETY IS A PART OF A LARGER GROUP CALLED THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR CLASS SOCIETIES. AT SOME POINT I WOULD EXPECT THEY WOULD GET INVOLVED IN PUBLISHED UNIFIED REQUIREMENT, THE VERY TOP LEVEL OF REQUIREMENT. THEN EVERYBODY GETS IN LINE WITH THE UNIFIED REQUIREMENTS. WE HAVE UNIFIED ON 19 TESTS DONE ON AUTOMATION FOR YEARS. I EXPECT WE WOULD TRY TO MAINTAIN SOME LEVEL WITH THINGS LIKE EQUIPMENT CERTIFICATION, UNIT TESTING, WE TRY TO KEEP THINGS IN ALIGNMENT. -- THAT WHOLE AREA THAT COULD BE A SEPARATE TECHNICAL PAPER. FROM MY EXPERIENCE, THERE IS A LOT OF, EVERYBODY IS ALL OVER THE MAP ON THAT. WHAT IS THE BEST WAY, SHOULD WE HAVE WATER IN COMBINATION WITH FIXED YES? -- GAS? SHOULD WE HAVE PORTABLE EXTINGUISHERS? THE NAVY BROUGHT UP STATIC ELECTRICITY AND NOT EVEN COMBUSTIBLE GAS. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT MERITS FURTHER STUDY. THE ONE THING EVERYONE AGREES ON IS YOU NEED WATER IF IT GETS OUT OF CONTROL, BECAUSE THE LESSON LEARNED ON THAT ONE VESSEL THAT HAD THE FIRE, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WAS NOT ABLE TO ENTER THE COMPARTMENT FOR A WHOLE DAY BECAUSE THE HEAT KEPT DISSIPATING. SO MAYBE YOU EXTINGUISH THE FIRE, BUT THAT CELL IS STILL RELEASING ENERGY, AND IS LIKE, I THINK BACK TO MY NAVY DAYS, YOU THINK OF ONCE A FIRE STARTS BURNING, ALL YOU CAN DO IS CONTAIN IT. IT IS A SELF-SUSTAINING REACTION. THAT IS WHY REALLY, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT APPROACH DO WE WANT TO TAKE TO FIRE SAFETY AND ALSO CREW TRAINING? THE CREW WILL HAVE TO BE TRAINED JUST LIKE YOU SEE FIRE DEPARTMENTS HAVE SPECIAL TRAINING ON HOW TO APPROACH AN ELECTRIC CAR THAT HAS BEEN IN AN ACCIDENT. YOU DON'T WANT TO JUST SPRAY WATER ON IT. BE CAREFUL, BECAUSE YOU MIGHT, THERE IS A RISK OF STATIC ELECTRICITY -- THERE IS A SHOCK HAZARD. I WILL TURN IT OVER TO TALK ABOUT CONSISTENCY. 

>> I JUST TALKING ABOUT FIRE SUPPRESSION AND REQUIREMENTS AND THAT TURNED UP TO BE OVER PRESCRIPTIVE, THAT IS A LOT OF WHAT THE INTENTION IS TO DO , ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS WITH TESTING AND ANALYSIS AND EXPLOSION ANALYSIS AND THOSE PROCEDURES, COLLABORATIVELY WITH DIFFERENT MEMBERS OF INDUSTRY SO WE KNOW WHO WE CAN HELP KIND OF DESIGN THOSE REQUIREMENTS 

>> JUST TO COMMENT TO THE FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM, THERE IS A LOT OF SPACE ON BOARD VESSELS TODAY. AND THESE WILL BE TESTED THE SAME WAY. YOU HAVE FUNCTIONAL TEST, ACTIVATE, MAYBE FEEL -- PHIL A CONVENT. IT IS JUST AN ORDINARY WAY. AS FOR THIS, WE STARTED WITH THE CLASS RULES BECAUSE IT WAS STARTING TO GET FACTORY DRIVEN VESSELS IN NORWAY, AND THAT WAS THE MAIN MARKET. WE HAD TO BE IN POSITION, SO THAT IS WHY WE STARTED WITH THE RULES. I ASSURE THAT THEY MAY BE VERY SLOW, BUT WHEN THEY GET UP TO SPEED IT WILL BE A COMMON FRAME FOR THE BOAT. 

>> I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THE DEMONSTRATION BY BATTERY. I GUESS IT WOULD BE THE BATTERY MANUFACTURER WHO GOES THROUGH THE BATTERY OF A TEST. SO I'M A BATTERY MANUFACTURER, I HAVE TO SATISFY THOSE TESTS. IS THAT DONE COLLABORATIVELY WITHIN DG L? ARE YOU INVOLVED IN THE SETTING OF THE APPARATUS OR THE LABORATORY EXPERIMENTS FOR DOING THAT, OR DO YOU JUST ACCEPT THE CHECKBOOK WITH ALL OF THE BOXES CHECKED THAT WE DID THIS TEST, THE THIS TEST, LOOKS GOOD? 

>> WHAT WE NORMALLY DO IS REQUIRE THE TEST ARE DONE, AND IT IS THE WEAKNESS BY THE IMMEDIATE SURVEYOR. SO THEY HAVE TO EXPLAIN HOW THE TEST IS AN WHAT THE EXPECTED TEST RESULT HE IS IN ALL OF THESE THINGS. WHEN MY COLLEAGUE HAS WITNESSED THE TEST, HE WILL STAMP OR ELECTRONICALLY STAMP OF THE TEST REPORT AND SAY IT WAS DONE ACCORDING. 

>> SO IT IS COLLABORATIVE. 

>> BUT FOR THE CELL TESTING, WE REFER TO [INDISCERNIBLE] FOR INSTANCE, THEN THERE ARE TESTS IN A LABORATORY THAT ARE ALLOWED TO DO THAT TEST, AND THEN WE DON'T REQUIRE MORE. [INDISCERNIBLE] 

>> THE BATTERIES ARE TYPE APPROVED ITEMS THAT? REGISTERED BY THE PLANT, OR DO YOU HAVE A MARINE APPLICATION, BATTERY TYPE APPROVED ITEM? 

>> WE OFFER A SERVICE WITH TYPE APPROVAL FOR THE BATTERIES. IT IS NOT REQUIRED FOR NOW TO HAVE IT TYPE APPROVED, BUT AS I SHOWED YOU ALL THESE TYPES, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE. WE SAY WE CAN HAVE A PRODUCT CERTIFICATE FOR THE CASE-BY-CASE CERTIFICATION FOR EACH VESSEL. AND THEN THE TYPE TEST NEEDS TO BE DONE. AT LEAST FOR THE FIRST DELIVERY. 

>> IT IS VERY SIMILAR. TYPE APPROVAL IS OPTIONAL. IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR THE BATTERY MANUFACTURER. THEY DO THE TESTING ONCE TO GET TYPE APPROVAL. MOST OF THAT CAN BE DONE BY AN ACCREDITED LAB. SOME OF IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE TEST IS, THEN THEY HAVE A TYPE APPROVED PRODUCT. AND THEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO REPEAT ALL OF THAT EVERY TIME YOU SELL THEM. THERE ARE CERTAIN APPLICATIONS WHERE HE HAVE TO WITNESS ADDITIONAL TESTING AS PART OF ESSENTIAL SERVICES OR PROPULSION. IT IS CALLED UNIT CERTIFICATION. I THINK YOU HAVE SELLER CRITERIA -- SIMILAR CRITERIA. IT MAY BE TYPE TESTED, BUT BECAUSE IT IS BEING USED FOR CERTIFICATION, WE STILL HAVE TO LOOK AT THE FACTORY ACCEPTANCE TESTS HAS THOSE COMMISSIONING AND SEA TRIALS. THAT IS CALLED UNIT CERTIFICATION. IF YOU HAVE A TYPE APPROVED PRODUCT, IT MAKES IT EASIER TO GET THE FINAL UNIT CERTIFICATION, BECAUSE YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE THE TYPE TESTING. YOU ONLY NEED TO DO LIKE ANOTHER ROUTINE TESTING. 

>> KIND OF A FOLLOW-ON TO THE LAST QUESTION, AT WHAT LEVEL WITH THE TYPE TESTING BE FOR THE BATTERY PACK, MODULE OR RAY? WHERE WOULD YOU EXPECT QUALIFICATION, OR THE QUALIFICATION BY EXTENSION PROCESS? 

>> THE TYPE TEST? IT IS TESTING ON CELL LEVEL, AND IS ON MODULE LEVEL EXCEPT FOR THE PROPAGATION TEST. THAT IS SYSTEM-LEVEL OR A PART OF THE SYSTEM LEVEL. BUT THE BMS NEEDS ALSO TO BE A TYPE TEST. SO THEN YOU HAVE A BMS CARD IN EACH MODULE, BUT YOU NEED THE COMPLETE SYSTEM TO DO THAT AND BE REQUIRED THAT THEY TAELOR MODE TESTING. SO WHAT IS THAT HAPPENS, THAT SYSTEM IS OPERATING EFFECTIVELY ? THAT IS ALSO PART OF TYPE TESTING. 

>> GOING ONCE, GOING TWICE. 

>> I HAVE A QUESTION, WHEN YOU SAY GOING BY WATER, IS IT WATER SPRAY OR ANY OTHER METHOD LIKE WATER FUMIGATION? 

>> MISSED. I GOT MORE QUESTIONS THEN I GET FROM MY WIFE [LAUGHTER] 

>> WE STAY IN THE RULES THAT IT SHALL BE BASED. YOU USE FOAM OR MIST, AND IS OK. IF IT IS LIGHT FOAM, IT MIGHT NOT COOL THAT MUCH. BUT AGAIN, OTHER METHODS, OTHER FIRE EXTINGUISHER CAN BE ALSO PERFORMED OR USED. THEN YOU HAVE TO PROVE IT. 

>> ANOTHER QUESTION IS, IS THERE ANY MOVEMENT [INDISCERNIBLE] ALL OF THAT CLASSIFICATION SOCIETY IS GETTING TOGETHER? 

>> ARE YOU AWARE OF YOUR I AM NOT OF ANY ACTIVITY AT THE ACTUAL, BUT EVERY YEAR, THEY COME OUT WITH NEW PRODUCTS . EVENTUALLY I THINK THIS WILL HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED TO GET EVERYBODY UNIFIED. THAT WOULD BE MY EXPECTATION. 

>> THANKS, ANYBODY ELSE? 

>> THANKS. ONE QUICK COMMENT. WHAT I HAVE NOTICED TODAY IS A COMMON THEME ABOUT LACK OF INFORMATION. WE ARE HERE AND GETTING INFORMATION, AND I WANT TO POINT OUT SOME OF THE DMV DOCUMENTS THAT FABIAN SHOWED, THE GUIDELINES FOR LARGE MARITIME SYSTEMS, THEY ARE NOT THAT EXCITING, BUT THERE IS GOOD INFORMATION. IT IS A GOOD PLACE TO START. I WOULD ENCOURAGE ANYBODY TO GO AND HAVE A READ OF THOSE. IT IS A STEP TO GETTING A COMMON LANGUAGE SO WE CONSERVE START TALKING ABOUT IMPORTANT THINGS MOVING FORWARD. OTHER THINGS I WANTED TO MENTION IS THE SORT OF, IT IS ALMOST UNFORTUNATE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BATTERIES. WHEN YOU ENVISION A BATTERY, YOU THINK WHAT IS STARTING YOUR CAR OR PHONE. IT IS OBVIOUS WHEN YOU TALK TO SOMEONE ABOUT THEIR CAR, YOU CAN SHORT OUT YOUR BATTERY WITH RAIN. BUT SPEAKING TO A COMMENT I HEARD EARLIER, IF YOU GO BELOW THAT IN YOUR ELECTRIC THEORY, AND -- FERRY AND YOU THINK IT IS POSSIBLE TO DROP A WRENCH IN SHORT IT OUT, YOU HAVE DONE SOMETHING WRONG. THESE ARE LARGE SYSTEMS. THERE SHOULD BE NO WAY YOU CAN SHORT OUT A WRENCH ON YOUR SYSTEM. I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. 

>> WE ARE ON THAT TOPIC, I HAVE A DOCUMENT FROM [INDISCERNIBLE] SOCIETY [INDISCERNIBLE] THEY HAVE A GUIDELINE FOR LARGE INSTALLATION. I DO NOT KNOW IF THEY ARE DOING THE SAME THING. I LIKE THE CLASSIFICATION [INDISCERNIBLE] ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? 

>> THE GUIDELINES BRIAN IS TALKING ABOUT, WE HAVE SPENT SEVERAL MONTHS UPDATING THEM. EVERYTHING ELSE THAT IS GOING ON, EVERYTHING WE HAVE LEARNED FROM TESTING AND THE RULES AND THE HANDBOOK THAT IS COMING OUT. SHOULD BE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE HOPEFULLY BY THE END OF THE YEAR. WE WANT TO MAKE IT AVAILABLE AS BASICALLY KIND OF UPDATING WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY GOT OUT THERE. 

>> THANKS. 

>> I TAKE IT MITCH IS GOING TO DO A WRAP UP EXERCISE FOR US. IF WE CAN GIVE ONE MORE ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR THE PRESENTERS, MUCH APPRECIATED. [APPLAUSE] 

>> ALL RIGHT, SO SPOILER ALERT FOR TOMORROW, WE DON'T HAVE TIME TONIGHT, SO WE WILL TALK ABOUT REGULATIONS AFTER THE COAST GUARD SPEAKS, AND YOU GUYS WILL BE BRAINSTORMING WAYS YOU CAN DO THE REGULATION PROCESS CHEAPER, FASTER, AND MORE EFFECTIVELY. THINK OF THAT OVERNIGHT. BRING THOSE IDEAS TOMORROW. AND ALSO FOR TODAY, WE HAVE ANOTHER HALF DAY TO GO. I WANT ALL OF YOU TO SPEND A MINUTE OR TWO I THINK ABOUT INFORMATION OR SOMETHING YOU NEED TO DISCUSS OR LEARN TOMORROW. SOMETHING THAT HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED TODAY. THEN YOU CAN TALK AMONGST YOURSELVES AT YOUR TABLE, AND WE WILL GIVE YOU TWO MINUTES, AND YOU CAN SHARE THOSE. WE CAN KEY THOSE UP FOR TOMORROW MORNING. 

>> BEFORE WE DEPART, I WOULD LIKE MY PARTNERS TO GIVE A FINAL CLOSING ADDRESS. 

>> [INDISCERNIBLE] 

>> I WASN'T CLEAR. 

>> THANKS. 

>> ALL RIGHT, LET'S START TO WRAP IT UP. WE WILL START WITH THIS TABLE UP FRONT. WE WILL GO AROUND IN A U. TELL US IF THERE IS KEY GAPS THAT NEED TO BE IDENTIFIED. 

>> WE WERE TALKING HERE THAT ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT MAY NEED MORE DISCUSSION, THAT WOULD BE COST, THE COST DRIVERS AND SYSTEM-LEVEL COSTS, HOW DO WE MANAGE THEM AND MORE. 

>> MAYBE IT IS OBVIOUS, BUT MANAGEMENT. 

>> WE HAVE KIND OF TWO, SORT OF, THE DURATION. THAT COMES INTO SOMETHING WE TOUCHED ON, BUT SIZING AND LANGUAGE. THAT IS A GENERAL THING TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT BATTERIES. WHEN YOU RESIZE AND ENGINE, YOU GET 250 KILOWATTS, 300 KILOWATTS DIESEL ENGINE. NOW WHATEVER IT YOU NEED TO DO, YOU JUST DO IT. WITH BATTERY, LOOK AT AVERAGE LOW SPEED, TEMPERATURE, SIZING OF ALL THINGS. THAT DEPRECIATION IS WHAT WE CAN PUT IN THERE. THAT WAS THE OTHER THING WE WANTED TO FILL IN. AND COST. 

>> THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THERMAL EVENTS AND FIRE AND ISSUES, WHICH WILL BE SOMETHING TO DEAL WITH ON THE PUBLIC ACCEPTANCE OF THIS SYSTEM WHERE THERE -- WHETHER IT IS VERY. WE THOUGHT YOU MIGHT WANT TO HAVE A WORKSHOP ON FIREFIGHTING AND GOING WITH A THERMAL EVENT. WE DON'T WANT TO SAY IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. I THINK EVERYBODY WILL FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IF PEOPLE THAT MAY BE DEALING WITH A FIRE DEPARTMENT, BUT WE HAD TO DEAL WITH THAT, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT CAME DOWN ON BOATS, AND WE FOUND A LOT OF EXPERIENCE ON LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES, BECAUSE THEY HAD AUTOMOTIVE ACCIDENTS. IT MAY BE SOMETHING TO DEAL WITH THAT SUBJECT SEPARATELY. 

>> FROM A NON-ENGINEERING PERSPECTIVE, I APPRECIATE WHEN THE TOPIC COMES OUT OF HOW TO TRANSLATE IT INTO COMMON TERMINOLOGY. AS YOU BROUGHT UP EARLIER, HORSEPOWER AND KILOWATTS, THAT IS VERY RELEVANT. BUT THE ITEM WE COME OUT WITH WAS INTEGRATING BATTERIES WITH OTHER SYSTEMS, SOCIAL CONSIDERATIONS THAT MAY ARISE DURING THAT. 

>> WE TALKED ABOUT SURE SITE INFRASTRUCTURE AND ADDRESSED THE LOT. THERE IS A FEELING THAT THAT IS IN SOME WAYS AN ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM. ALSO ADDRESSING DIFFERENT TYPES OF HYBRID SYSTEMS AND, YOU KNOW, HYBRID ARCHITECTURES AND HOW THEY MAY HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OF CERTAIN TYPES, HOW DO YOU MATCH THOSE TO DIFFERENT TYPES OF PROFILES WHEN ONE IS LOW. 

>> WE SORT OF HAD A BREAKAWAY DISCUSSION WHICH COVERED NONE OF WHAT YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT, WIDE-RANGING TOPIC DISCUSSION GOING ALL THE WAY TO PRAGMATISM, LIABILITY, YOU NAME IT. I GUESS IT DOESN'T FIT ON THE FRIDAY TO DO COLUMN, BUT TO KEEP DRIVING TOWARDS COMMON LANGUAGE, AND IS NOT NECESSARILY THE END IN ITSELF, BUT WE WILL START TO CONVERGE TO WHERE WE CAN ALL TALK ABOUT IN COMMON TERMS AND EVENTUALLY GET THROUGH THE FOG AND BE ABLE TO EVALUATE ONE SYSTEM VERSUS ANOTHER, PROS AND CONS. IT WILL BE AN ONGOING PROCESS, I WOULD SAY. 

>> YEAH, WE TALKED ABOUT POLICY ," POLICY WHICH I THINK WILL BE COVERED, BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING I HOPE. HOW WE CAN LOCALIZE REQUIREMENTS WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT. 

>> SO WE, WE HAD A DISCUSSION OF WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS A COMPARABLE BODY OF AVIATION TO AIR VESSELS. I THINK RESTRICTIONS ARE AROUND THE LITHIUM BATTERY USE, MAY BE MORE SEVERE THAN MARITIME APPLICATION. IF THERE IS SUCH A BODY, THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN AVIATION AND MARITIME. IT IS NOT REALLY A SPECIFIC QUESTION, MORE THAN WONDERING. 

>> WE WILL SAY POWER MANAGEMENT ARE ON THE AGENDA. A LOT TO SEE ON HOW WE CAN FOLD IN . WE WILL SEE IF THAT CAN FIT IN THE WRAP UP DISCUSSION. ON THE AVIATION BODIES, [INDISCERNIBLE] BUT EVERYONE WAS TALKING ABOUT. IT IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT ANIMAL. 

>> IT WAS PUT IN PLACE FOR SHIPPING, THINGS THAT ARE CARRIED ON AN AIRCRAFT. THE SIZE OF THE BATTERY YOU PUT ON A BOAT IS MORE RESTRICTIVE FOR SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN PUT IN THE AIR. 

>> IT HAS BEEN A VERY LONG DAY, AND I APPRECIATE THE FACT EVERYBODY STAYED EITHER BECAUSE IT IS COLD OUT, OR IT WAS INTERESTING. I HOPE YOU WILL ALL COME BACK YESTERDAY -- TOMORROW. HOPEFULLY YOU CAN COME BACK TOMORROW. IT WILL BE THE SAME DRILL IN THE MORNING. WE WILL BE OUT THERE ESCORTING FOLKS IN. TONIGHT AS YOU LEAVE, I WILL ALSO ESCORT YOU OUT. SO IF WE COULD GET BIGGER GROUPS, THAT WOULD BE APPRECIATED. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. I HAVE LEARNED A LOT ABOUT BATTERIES. I NO LONGER WORRY ABOUT MY WATCH BATTERY. WE ARE WELL BEYOND THAT. ANYWAY, THIS HAS BEEN A GREAT EVENT FOR US. ME AND MY STAFF, MYSELF, WE NEED TO TRY TO HELP IN THIS AREA OF BATTERIES AND HYBRID TECHNOLOGIES UNDER THAT PROGRAM. I TALKED ABOUT EARLIER. THANKS AGAIN. I APPRECIATE IT. [APPLAUSE]